Subject: Design Papers
Mime-Version: 1.0
>Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 18:18:30 -0500
>From: Lindner <lindnerj@advicom.net>
>Subject: Design Papers
>Sender: owner-canoe@ftl.com
>To: Pete Martin <martinp@egr.uri.edu>
>Cc: canoe@ftl.com, ccc@ftl.com
>Reply-to: lindnerj@iquest.com
>
>Peter,
>Ms. Ping Wei is the student services coordinator at ASCE Headquarters. She
>can provide this information to you. The email address to reach her is
>student@asce.org. As a matter of fact, all non-rules related questions
>should be directed to Ping. You will find that she is very friendly and
>helpful.
>
>-Christelle Lindner
>Co-Chair, Committee on National Concrete Canoe Competitions (CNCCC)
>ccc@ftl.com
>
>----------
>> From: Pete Martin <martinp@egr.uri.edu>
>> To: lindnerj@advicom.net
>> Subject: ccc
>> Date: Friday, October 16, 1998 10:59 AM
>>
>> How can I request the design papers for the top schools of the 98
>> national competition??
>>
>> Thank you,
>> Peter Martin
>> President, URI ASCE Student Chapter
Subject: Non-rules related questions
Mime-Version: 1.0
>Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 16:18:09 -0500
>From: Lindner <lindnerj@advicom.net>
>Subject: Non-rules related questions
>Sender: owner-canoe@ftl.com
>To: canoe@ftl.com
>Cc: ccc@ftl.com
>Reply-to: lindnerj@iquest.com
>
>Hi everyone,
>
>By now, all schools should have received 2 copies of the 1999 National
>Concrete Canoe Rules (faculty advisor and student chapter president).
>Significant changes have been incorporated into this year's rules, so if
>there is any need for rules interpretation, please send question to
>ccc@ftl.com. The question and answer will be broadcast via canoe@ftl.com
>unless a request for privacy is requested.
>
>Now that we have a student services coordinator at ASCE Headquarters (a
>very competent one at that), questions that are not directly related to
>concrete canoe rules interpretations should be directed to
>student@asce.org. Ms. Ping Wei will be happy to
>respond to your questions. Good Luck!
>
>-Christelle Lindner
>Co-Chair, Committee on National Concrete Canoe Competitions (CNCCC)
>ccc@ftl.com
Subject: 99Q&A#1
>Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 16:13:47 -0500
>From: Lindner <lindnerj@advicom.net>
>Subject: 99Q&A#1
>Sender: owner-canoe@ftl.com
>To: canoe@ftl.com
>Cc: ccc@ftl.com
>Reply-to: lindnerj@iquest.com
>
>Charlie,
>
>Section I.G. of the 1999 Rules states that "Registered participants
>shall be engineering students during the 1998/99 academic year in which
>the canoe was constructed, shall be members of an ASCE Student Chapter
>or Club in good standing, and shall have contributed to the design and
>construction of the canoe. A person may act as a registered participant
>for no more than 5 years (consecutive or non-consecutive). There are no
>term limits for participation in other roles."
>
>Since your student does not graduate until December 1998, he will have
>been a student during the 1998/99 academic year, he will still be a
>member of the ASCE student chapter until Sept. 1999, therefore as long
>as your chapter remains in good standing and he contributes to the
>design and construction of the canoe .... he is eligible to paddle.
>
>The 1999 competition is currently scheduled for June 17-20, 1999.
>
>Elizabeth Sparkman
>Co-Chair, CNCCC
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Charles J. Baker [mailto:cjb4031@silver.sdsmt.edu]
>Sent: Saturday, September 26, 1998 10:17 AM
>To: Elizabeth Sparkman
>Cc: Jed Brich; Ryan Koontz; Rhaub Walker
>Subject: Paddlers
>
>
>Hi Elizabeth,
>
>I thought that I should approach you about these questions since ASCE is
>still having a problem finding a replacement for Roshena.
>
>I have a question that I would like you and the CNCCC to answer for us
>if you can. One of the students in our chapter would like to paddle the
>canoe next year, but he is going to graduate in December. Is it all
>right if he paddles at regionals in April and nationals in June. Please
>let me know as soon as possible. Membership in our chapter runs from
>September in one year until September the next year, so he would still
>be an official member of our chapter.
>
>I was also wonder what the exact date for the national competition are.
>
>I have talked to one of our officers about sending the buoys and
>anchoring system. It will probably be done within the next few weeks.
>Sorry about the wait.
>
>Thanks for your help Elizabeth.
>
>Sincerely,
>
>
>Charlie Baker
>SDSM&T
Subject: 99Q&A#2
>Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 16:24:28 -0500
>From: Lindner <lindnerj@advicom.net>
>Subject: 99Q&A#2
>Sender: owner-canoe@ftl.com
>To: canoe@ftl.com
>Cc: ccc@ftl.com
>Reply-to: lindnerj@iquest.com
>
> From: Lindner <lindnerj@advicom.net>
> To: dana beth mehlman <mehlman@students.uiuc.edu>
> Subject: Re: Nationals
> Date: Wednesday, October 07, 1998 7:11 PM
>
> Dana,
>
> The 1999 ASCE/MBT National Concrete Canoe Competition will be held June
> 17-20, 1999 at the Florida Institute of Technology in Melbourne, Florida.
>
> -Christelle Lindner
> Co-Chair, Committee on National Concrete Canoe Competitions (CNCCC)
> ccc@ftl.com
>
>
>> > ----------
>> > > From: dana beth mehlman <mehlman@students.uiuc.edu>
>> > > To: ccc@ftl.com
>> > > Subject:
>> > > Date: Tuesday, October 06, 1998 5:05 PM
>> > >
>> > > I was wondering where the 1999 National Concrete Canoe competition is
>> > > going to be held. I went to masterbuilders homepage, but they only
>> have
>> > > info on last summers competition.
Subject: 99Q&A#3
>Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 17:56:15 -0500
>From: Lindner <lindnerj@advicom.net>
>Subject: 99Q&A#3
>Sender: owner-canoe@ftl.com
>To: Jenn Sharkey <jsharkey@students.uiuc.edu>
>Cc: canoe@ftl.com, ccc@ftl.com
>Reply-to: lindnerj@iquest.com
>
>Jenn,
>
>According to Rule II.A.3, thanking the sponsors in the design report is not
>permitted. Typically, schools display sponsor names on team T-shirts, or
>practice canoes (not the actual concrete canoe).
>
>-Christelle Lindner
>Co-Chair, Committee on National Concrete Canoe Competitions (CNCCC)
>ccc@ftl.com
>
>----------
>> From: Jenn Sharkey <jsharkey@students.uiuc.edu>
>> To: ccc@ftl.com
>> Subject: Sponsor credit
>> Date: Monday, October 12, 1998 7:34 AM
>>
>> Rule II.A.3 states that "Sponsor credit or commercialism is not permitted
>> on the design report, display board, or canoe." In past years, we have
>> included a statement in our design report thanking the following
>sponsors,
>> and listing their names. Is this no longer acceptable?
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>> Jenn Sharkey
>> UIUC
Subject: 99Q&A#4
>Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 18:34:57 -0500
>From: Lindner <lindnerj@advicom.net>
>Subject: 99Q&A#4
>Sender: owner-canoe@ftl.com
>To: Gandolf20@aol.com
>Cc: canoe@ftl.com, ccc@ftl.com
>Reply-to: lindnerj@iquest.com
>
>Chris,
>
>I am glad you asked this question. The particular rule in question is Rule
>II.B.7.b which states:
>
>"b. Solid fiber mats or plates for reinforcing are not permitted. Solid
>fiber reinforcing mats are described as reinforcing materials that require
>additional bonding agents or post-manufacturer perforations to keep the
>reinforcement from delaminating from the concrete composite, i.e., lack of
>open space between the reinforcement sufficient for mechanical bonding to
>the concrete composite."
>
>While writing the rules, the CNCCC struggled with this particular issue.
>We wanted to define a minimum opening, but at the same time, did not want
>the rules to be too restrictive as to suppress innovation or eliminate
>non-solid mats because of spacing issues. So instead, we define the solid
>fiber mat as "lack of open space between the reinforcement". To clarify
>this definition, we entered the following Q&A in the Frequently Asked
>Questions Section (VII) of the Rules:
>
>Question
>We are using rebar for our thwart. The rebar is used elsewhere in the hull
>as reinforcement, so we are in compliance with Rule II.B.3. Is the rebar
>considered a solid fiber mat as specified in Rule II.C.7.b because of lack
>of open space?
>
>Answer
>No. Rule II.C.7.b states that solid fiber mats or plates are not
>permitted. A simple test can be performed to determine if your material is
>in compliance with the rule. Place your reinforcement over a 4"x8"
>cylinder that contains one cup of Ottowa sand. If it takes longer than 10
>seconds to pour out the cup of sand, then your material is a solid fiber
>mat or plate. Any given section of your reinforcement must comply.
>
>If your reinforcement can pass this test, it is not a solid mat. However,
>if you choose to use a reinforcement that is questionable, be prepared at
>the competition to demonstrate this test to the judges.
>
>For clarity, solid fiber mats cannot be used regardless of delamination
>presence or absence.
>
>-Christelle Lindner
>Co-Chair, Committee on National Concrete Canoe Competitions (CNCCC)
>ccc@ftl.com
>----------
>> From: Gandolf20@aol.com
>> To: ccc@ftl.com
>> Subject: Rule Interpretation
>> Date: Thursday, October 15, 1998 7:54 AM
>>
>> Solid fiber mats as described in Secton II C, Part 7-b of the rules,
>gives a
>> definition of solid fiber mats. If testing shows that there is no
>> delamination of the solid fiber mat from the concrete matrix, and there
>is no
>> post manufacturer perforation or bonding agents used, can it be used?
>>
>> Chris Thompson
>> Univeristy of Central Florida
>> Student ASCE
Subject: 99Q&A#5
>Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 18:23:27 -0500
>From: Lindner <lindnerj@advicom.net>
>Subject: 99Q&A#5
>Sender: owner-canoe@ftl.com
>To: Scott Rutledge <scott@cowboy.net>
>Cc: canoe@ftl.com, ccc@ftl.com
>Reply-to: lindnerj@iquest.com
>
>Scott,
>
>Good question.
>
>Ray, our materials rep on the CNCCC responds with:
>
>"If you put 4 layers together, one right on top of the other, no concrete
>between,
>then I'd say you have to test the layers all together. If you have a clear
>separation of, say, 1/16th of an inch or more between the layers with
>concrete in between, I'd say you can test one layer at a time."
>
>Therefore, the reinforcement scheme should be able to pass II.C.7.b.
>
>-Christelle Lindner
>Co-Chair, Committee on National Concrete Canoe Competitions (CNCCC)
>ccc@ftl.com
>
>----------
>> From: Scott Rutledge <scott@cowboy.net>
>> To: CNCCC <ccc@ftl.com>
>> Subject: Reinforcements
>> Date: Thursday, October 15, 1998 9:55 PM
>>
>> Hello ALL,
>>
>> I have a quickie here.
>> Does the entire reinforcement scheme need to pass the 4X8 Ottowa Test
>> (ASTM# :) )? OR
>> Does it just require that the individual layers of reinforcing material
>> pass this test?
>> I think the OSU can do it either way,... :)
>> Just asking for clarification.
>>
>> Thank you,
>> Scott Rutledge
>> OSU Nobody
Subject: 99Q&A#6
>Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 18:31:13 -0500
>From: Lindner <lindnerj@advicom.net>
>Subject: 99Q&A#6
>Sender: owner-canoe@ftl.com
>To: Brian J Arbuckle <barbuck@uswest.com>
>Cc: canoe@ftl.com, ccc@ftl.com
>Reply-to: lindnerj@iquest.com
>
>Brian,
>
>By disallowing modified cements, we are eliminating the use of cements such
>as Types IS, IP, P, I S, etc. The material you specified should be fine,
>but you must consider it as a binding agent, and not Portland Cement when
>conforming to Rule II.C.1, which states that
>"A minimum of 75% (by weight of solids) of the binding material shall be
>Portland Cement."
>
>-Christelle Lindner
>Co-Chair, Committee on National Concrete Canoe Competitions (CNCCC)
>ccc@ftl.com
>
>----------
>> From: Brian J Arbuckle <barbuck@uswest.com>
>> To: ccc@ftl.com
>> Cc: barbuckl@mines.edu
>> Subject: canoe
>> Date: Friday, October 16, 1998 10:58 AM
>>
>> I am the project manager for the Colorado School of Mines Concrete Canoe
>> Team. We received large quantities of a donated material from Holnam
>> Inc.I am almost positive that the material conforms to the rules but I
>> would still like a definite answer. The material is XXXXX. It is a
>> white powder designed to replace a portion of the portland cement as a
>> binding agent. The area that I would like clarification on
>> is the "modified cement" in rule II.C.1.
>>
>> Thank you for your time,
>> Brian Arbuckle
Subject: 99Q&A#7
Brad,
Rule I.G states:
"Registered participants shall be engineering students during the 1998/99
academic year in which the canoe was constructed, shall be members of an
ASCE Student Chapter or Club in good standing, and shall have contributed
To the design and construction of the canoe. A person may act as a registered
participant for no more than 5 years (consecutive or non-consecutive).
There are no term limits for participation in other roles"
If they are "engineering students" (whether or not graduate) and are
Members of an ASCE Student Chapter then they meet the criteria of Rule I.G.
Otherwise, no. The MBA student does not meet this rule. The hydro-geology student is probably out unless s/he's in a department of hydrogeological engineering or another engineering department.
-Christelle Lindner
Co-Chair, Committee on National Concrete Canoe Competitions (CNCCC)
ccc@ftl.com
----------
> From: BPUTMAN@CLEMSON.EDU
> To: ccc@ftl.com
> Subject: Student Eligibility
> Date: Tuesday, October 20, 1998 3:35 PM
>
> CNCCC,
>
> We have a couple of people interested in paddling this year who
completed
> their undergraduate study in civil engineering this past May. One
student
> is currently enrolled in Clemson's hydro-geology program and the other is
> in the MBA program. They both intend to use their education in the
> engineering world after graduation. Would these two individuals be in
> accordance with section I.G of the 1999 rules.
>
> Brad Putman
> 3CT
Subject: 99Q&A#8
From: "Lindner" <lindnerj@advicom.net>
To: "Scott Beck" <sdbeck@polymail.cpunix.calpoly.edu>
Cc: <canoe@ftl.com>, <ccc@ftl.com>
Subject: 99Q&A#8
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 17:16:10 -0600
Scott,
This is almost an impossible question to answer. It is difficult to list
all materials that would be illegal under this rule. The
intent of this rule was to allow for fiber meshes that were coated with a
minimal amount of epoxy or other polymers for fabrication purposes and for
handling. We want to eliminate the use of thermoset materials (pre-pregs)
that require
heat input to cure. If not heat activated, these materials will eventually
"glass" over time, but
will not fully cure. I think that any material that comes from the
manufacturer stating that heat should be or can be added to set the
material
is illegal. Likewise, if the manufacturer distributes a material that
requires an additional chemical to be combined with the mesh to complete
the
reinforcement, and if the student uses that chemical in their concrete mix
or coats their mesh with it, I would say that that is illegal.
Meshes that are distributed by the manufacturer should come with some
direction for additional chemicals to activate
the mesh if required. That type of material is illegal under Rule II.C.6.b.
If not, that probably means that the mesh is
already in its final configuration. However, if you have any doubt, always
ask the CNCCC for a ruling on your particular material.
-Christelle Lindner
Co-Chair, Committee on National Concrete Canoe Competitions (CNCCC)
ccc@ftl.com
----------
> From: Scott Beck <sdbeck@polymail.cpunix.calpoly.edu>
> To: ccc@ftl.com
> Subject: ruling
> Date: Tuesday, October 20, 1998 1:47 PM
>
> According to Rule II.C.6.b, reinforcing materials can't be activated to
> form a structural reinforcement composite in and of itself. With respect
> to epoxy coated fiberglass, what type of materials are considered to
> activate it to form "structural reinforcement composite in and of
itself"?
Subject: 99Q&A#9
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 17:50:15 -0600
From: Lindner <lindnerj@advicom.net>
Subject: 99Q&A#9
Sender: owner-canoe@ftl.com
To: "Lisa M. Dale" <ldale@gonzaga.edu>
Cc: canoe@ftl.com, ccc@ftl.com
Reply-to: lindnerj@iquest.com
Lisa,
A total of four (4) paddlers are required to compete in the coed sprint, 2
males and 2 females. This is a considerable change from previous years.
-Christelle Lindner
Co-Chair, Committee on National Concrete Canoe Competitions (CNCCC)
ccc@ftl.com
----------
> From: Lisa M. Dale <ldale@gonzaga.edu>
> To: ccc@ftl.com
> Subject:
> Date: Monday, October 26, 1998 10:14 PM
>
>
> We would like to get a confirmation on the number of people in the coed
> sprint race. Since the change from last year is so drastic and the
design
> specifications would also change drastically, we want to make sure.
> --
Subject: 99Q&A#10
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 18:00:27 -0600
From: Lindner <lindnerj@advicom.net>
Subject: 99Q&A#10
Sender: owner-canoe@ftl.com
To: THOMAS M NGO <thomasn@ucla.edu>
Cc: canoe@ftl.com, ccc@ftl.com
Reply-to: lindnerj@iquest.com
Thomas,
Thwarts are not considered a safety hazard, even though they have hollow
space beneath them. They could pose a threat, for example, if the paddler
must force his/her legs underneath the thwarts in order to paddle. This
would restrict the paddler's exit from the canoe. Therefore, a knowledge
paddler positions is important when positioning the thwarts, especially
with the 4 person coed sprint.
-Christelle Lindner
Co-Chair, Committee on National Concrete Canoe Competitions (CNCCC)
ccc@ftl.com
----------
> From: THOMAS M NGO <thomasn@ucla.edu>
> To: ccc@ftl.com
> Cc: lindalee@ucla.edu
> Subject:
> Date: Monday, October 26, 1998 9:53 PM
>
> I had a few questions about the tranverse structural element allowed on
> the canoe this year. This year, we have been allowed to used a tranverse
> structural element, and that many schools have decided to use thwarts.
> According to the saftey rules, i was not sure about the rules on the use
> of thwarts. The safety rules have stated that a paddler should be able
> to exit the canoe and not have any problems of being stuck in the canoe.
> So therefore, my question would be, what are the rules on building
> thwarts, or traverse structural elements that would mean the canoe having
> a hollow space underneath these thwarts. Would that be considered a
> safety violation?
>
> thomas
> --
Subject: 99Q&A#11
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 17:52:44 -0600
From: Lindner <lindnerj@advicom.net>
Subject: 99Q&A#11
Sender: owner-canoe@ftl.com
To: Claire Bourseleth <cab1@mundania.eng.wayne.edu>
Cc: canoe@ftl.com, ccc@ftl.com
Reply-to: lindnerj@iquest.com
Claire,
Short polymer fibers in the concrete mix design are permitted.
-Christelle Lindner
Co-Chair, Committee on National Concrete Canoe Competitions (CNCCC)
ccc@ftl.com
----------
> From: Claire Bourseleth <cab1@mundania.eng.wayne.edu>
> To: ccc@ftl.com
> Subject: Reinforcement Rules
> Date: Thursday, October 29, 1998 3:51 PM
>
>
> I have a question regarding the use of short polymer fibers in the
> concrete mix design. Are these materials permitted for the Competition?
> Please respond ASAP so we can continue with our testing.
> Thank you,
>
> Claire Bourseleth
> Captian - WSU Concrete canoe Team
Subject: 99Q&A#12
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 17:56:07 -0600
From: Lindner <lindnerj@advicom.net>
Subject: 99Q&A#12
Sender: owner-canoe@ftl.com
To: MICHAEL RAMIREZ <rmichael@utep.edu>
Cc: canoe@ftl.com, ccc@ftl.com
Reply-to: lindnerj@iquest.com
Michael,
Yes, 2 men and 2 women will all be in the canoe at the same time during the
coed sprint. This race is meant to challenge schools both in design and in
paddling. I can't wait to see the solutions to this new problem.
-Christelle Lindner
Co-Chair, Committee on National Concrete Canoe Competitions (CNCCC)
ccc@ftl.com
----------
> From: MICHAEL RAMIREZ <rmichael@utep.edu>
> To: ccc@ftl.com
> Subject:
> Date: Thursday, October 29, 1998 4:41 PM
>
>
> Does the 4 person coed sprint mean that there will be 4 people in
> the canoe at one time?
>
> --
Subject: 99Q&AQ#13
Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 18:56:45 -0600
From: Lindner <lindnerj@advicom.net>
Subject: 99Q&AQ#13
Sender: owner-canoe@ftl.com
To: Iqbal Shareef <shareef@bradley.bradley.edu>
Cc: canoe@ftl.com, ccc@ftl.com
Reply-to: lindnerj@iquest.com
Iqbal,
Kevlar is a permissible material, provided it meets the requirements as
specified in Rules II.C.6-7. These rules are shown below.
6. Reinforcing materials
a. Reinforcing materials shall provide stiffness by forming a composite
system with the concrete.
b. Reinforcing materials that have epoxy, polymer or thermo-set materials
in conjunction with the reinforcement are not permitted if they are further
activated to form a structural reinforcement composite in and of itself.
This includes, but is not limited to: pre-impregnated carbon fiber tape and
epoxy coated fiberglass mesh.
c. No post-manufacturer applied coating of any kind is permitted on any
reinforcing materials.
d. Materials that contain manufacturer coatings that are not activated, but
will fully or partially activate over time due to ambient heating, are not
permitted (e.g., pre-impregnated carbon fiber tape).
7. Reinforcements
a. No post-manufacturer welding, brazing, or soldering of any part or
portion of the canoe reinforcement shall be allowed.
b. Solid fiber mats or plates for reinforcing are not permitted. Solid
fiber reinforcing mats are described as reinforcing materials that require
additional bonding agents or post-manufacturer perforations to keep the
reinforcement from delaminating from the concrete composite, i.e., lack of
open space between the reinforcement sufficient for mechanical bonding to
the concrete composite.
c. Reinforcements cannot contain hollow cavities. Potential cavities must
be filled with concrete complying with Section II.C in the final product.
(E.g., tubing must be filled with concrete in the final product.)
Last year, several schools received point deductions for using fiber
meshes such as Kevlar because these meshes contained manufacturer coatings.
This year, the rules allow for manufacturer applied coatings, provided
that they don't require further activation.
The intent of this rule was to allow for fiber meshes that were coated with
a minimal amount of epoxy or other polymers for fabrication purposes and
for handling.
As for your second question, pre-pregs are strictly prohibited. We want to
eliminate the use of thermoset materials (pre-pregs)
that require heat input to cure (illegal by Rule II.C.6.b). If not heat
activated, these materials will eventually "glass" over time, but not fully
cure (illegal by Rule II.C.6.d).
-Christelle Lindner
Co-Chair, Committee on National Concrete Canoe Competitions (CNCCC)
ccc@ftl.com
----------
> From: Iqbal Shareef <shareef@bradley.bradley.edu>
> To: lindnerj@advicom.net
> Cc: jkantz@camelot.bradley.edu
> Subject: Concrete Canoe Rules and Regulations
> Date: Thursday, October 29, 1998 9:48 PM
>
>
> October 29, 1998
>
> To: Christelle Lindner
>
> From: Iqbal Shareef
>
> Subject: Concrete Canoe Rules and Regulations
>
> A very good student of mine is planning to build a Concrete Canoe.
> >From the reports submitted by other schools who participated last
> year, I understand Kevlar was used as reinforcement in building of
> Canoe. I have two questions related to this
> 1) Is use of Kevlar permissible? because we are also interested in
> using it for this year's competition.
> 2) Is graphite fiber reinforce prepreg also permissible to use?
>
> I would appreciate your response to my two questions. Thanks
>
>
--
Subject: 99Q&A#14
Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 19:04:16 -0600
From: Lindner <lindnerj@advicom.net>
Subject: 99Q&A#14
Sender: owner-canoe@ftl.com
To: Benjamin Findley <bfindley@emerald.tufts.edu>
Cc: canoe@ftl.com, ccc@ftl.com
Reply-to: lindnerj@iquest.com
Ben,
Our materials rep, Ray Cook, responds with:
"The short answer is "no." A Type K is not a I, II, III, IV, or V. So it
does not qualify.
The long answer is, If your Type K meets all the physical and chemical
requirements of one of the cements in ASTM C150, then it meets those
requirements and could be considered a Type II (or whatever) cement."
From my reading, Type K cement meets the requirements of ASTM C 845, where
it is designated as Type E-1. Check Master Builders to see if they have
any admixtures which you could add to Portland cement to match the
properties of Type K.
-Christelle Lindner
Co-Chair, Committee on National Concrete Canoe Competitions (CNCCC)
ccc@ftl.com
----------
> From: Benjamin Findley <bfindley@emerald.tufts.edu>
> To: ccc@ftl.com
> Subject: Type K cement
> Date: Wednesday, October 28, 1998 10:52 AM
>
> Those of us here at Tufts would like to know if Type K expansive cement
> meets the specifications for Portland Cement. I was unable to tell
simply
> from having read ASTM C150, so clarification would be appreciated.
>
> Ben FIndley
> Head of the Tufts Concrete Canoe Team
>
--
Subject: 99Q&A#15
Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 14:23:11 -0600
From: Lindner <lindnerj@advicom.net>
Subject: 99Q&A#15
Sender: owner-canoe@ftl.com
To: canoe@ftl.com
Cc: ccc@ftl.com
Reply-to: lindnerj@iquest.com
>To the CNCCC:
>
>Awhile back, the naval architect that helped our school had came up with
an
>idea similar to UAH using balsa wood as a spacer. Instead of balsa, he
> recommended foam core. This foam is used in the canoe industry.
> Originally, I felt that the use of foam would be illegal because some
> may consider it "flotation" outside of the permitted 2 feet from the bow
>and/or stern. However, one can also say that anything weighing (or less
>dense) than water would /could be considered "flotation" and this would
>nclude balsa wood, foam, and even the concrete. So is foam core, cut
>n strips and used as spacers, legal?
You bring up a good point that we failed as a committee to consider this
year. Unfortunately, students may view this as a loop hole in the rules
in
order to increase flotation. Fortunately, students are not permitted to
spray on a foam layer and cut out holes by Rule II.C.7.b. However,
students may use foam strips as spacers. The problem arises when
considering the width of each strip and the spacing between them. A judge
may view too many strips with little spacing as violating the "spirit of
the competition". In that case, the judge is free to deduct as many points
as s/he deems appropriate. Our intention is to avoid such controversy.
The committee has decided that the usage of lightweight strips that meet
the following requirements should NOT result in a point deduction:
The spacer strips shall not be a solid mat or plate as specified in Rule
II.C.7.b. In Section VIII (FAQ) (pg. 31), a test has been identified to
determine whether or not the reinforcement complies with this rule. The
spacer strips shall be tested with the reinforcement it separates when
testing for compliance.
The spacer strips shall be separated by a distance equal to no less than
4
times an individual spacer's width. If any one particular strip has
varying width, the maximum width shall be used to determine the spacing.
If
2 adjacent strips have different widths, the spacer with the maximum width
shall be used to determine the spacing between these two strips.
At this point in time, this ruling applies to lightweight STRIPS serving
as
spacers. Questions concerning other forms of spacers should be directed
to
ccc@ftl.com.
-Christelle Lindner
Co-Chair, Committee on National Concrete Canoe Competitions (CNCCC)
ccc@ftl.com
--
Subject: 99Q&A#16
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 18:12:58 -0600
From: Lindner <lindnerj@advicom.net>
Subject: 99Q&A#16
Sender: owner-canoe@ftl.com
To: Robertson Belarmino <Robertson_Belarmino@student.uml.edu>
Cc: canoe@ftl.com, ccc@ftl.com
Reply-to: lindnerj@iquest.com
Rob,
The Portland cement will react with the water in the latex, so you should
be ok. However, you must include the the weight of the latex in the
emulsion as part of the binding materials when considering the 75% rule.
If you check out the Frequently Asked Questions Section of the rules
(Section VIII), you will find that question 4 is very similar to your
question. That may provide you with additional insight as to the intent of
this rule.
-Christelle Lindner
Co-Chair, Committee on National Concrete Canoe Competitions (CNCCC)
ccc@ftl.com
----------
> From: Robertson Belarmino <Robertson_Belarmino@student.uml.edu>
> To: ccc@ftl.com
> Subject: Question about rules:
> Date: Saturday, November 07, 1998 9:31 AM
>
>
> Hi my name is Rob from the ASCE UMASS- Lowell chapter,
> I have question regarding rule Section C(Materials) #1:
>
> A mimum of 75%( by weight of solids) of the binding material shall be
> Portland cement. The Portland cement which is to be used in the concrete
> mix design shall be in accordance with the latest version of ASTM C 150
> 'Standard Specification for Portland Cement' and SHALL BE RACTED WITH
> WATER TO FORM A BINDING MATERIAL. Moodified cements are not permitted.
>
>
> THE QUESTION IS:
>
> Does the concrete mix have to be mix with or reacted with pure water?
> In our case we are using latex emulsion as our water resource wich is
> practically 60% H2O by volume; so we just wat to get a specific answer
for
> this rule.
>
>
> Thanks
> ROB
> --
Subject: 99Q&A#17
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 17:58:09 -0600
From: Lindner <lindnerj@advicom.net>
Subject: 99Q&A#17
Sender: owner-canoe@ftl.com
To: Charles Habermann <photo@winternet.com>
Cc: ccc@ftl.com, canoe@ftl.com, cnccc@ftl.com
Reply-to: lindnerj@iquest.com
Charles,
It sounds as if the PVC foam core could be considered as a solid plate
which is a direct violation of Rule II.C.7.b which states that ...
"Solid fiber mats or plates are not permitted...." A simple test to
determine whether your reinforcement falls under this category can be found
in Section VIII Frequently Asked Questions, question 7. In addition,
under this same rule, you may not punch holes in the PVC in order to meet
the standard. If I understand correctly, you want to use some format of
reinforcement on both sides of the foam, to form somewhat of a foam
sandwich. The entire reinforcement scheme must pass the plate test. You
may, however, cut the foam into strips and use the strips to separate the
layers of reinforcement. The committee has recently made a ruling on the
usage of lightweight strips which I will repeat below:
>To the CNCCC:
>
>Awhile back, the naval architect that helped our school had came up with
an
>idea similar to UAH using balsa wood as a spacer. Instead of balsa, he
> recommended foam core. This foam is used in the canoe industry.
> Originally, I felt that the use of foam would be illegal because some
> may consider it "flotation" outside of the permitted 2 feet from the bow
>and/or stern. However, one can also say that anything weighing (or less
>dense) than water would /could be considered "flotation" and this would
>nclude balsa wood, foam, and even the concrete. So is foam core, cut
>n strips and used as spacers, legal?
You bring up a good point that we failed as a committee to consider this
year. Unfortunately, students may view this as a loop hole in the rules
in
order to increase flotation. Fortunately, students are not permitted to
spray on a foam layer and cut out holes by Rule II.C.7.b. However,
students may use foam strips as spacers. The problem arises when
considering the width of each strip and the spacing between them. A judge
may view too many strips with little spacing as violating the "spirit of
the competition". In that case, the judge is free to deduct as many points
as s/he deems appropriate. Our intention is to avoid such controversy.
The committee has decided that the usage of lightweight strips that meet
the following requirements should NOT result in a point deduction:
The spacer strips shall not be a solid mat or plate as specified in Rule
II.C.7.b. In Section VIII (FAQ) (pg. 31), a test has been identified to
determine whether or not the reinforcement complies with this rule. The
spacer strips shall be tested with the reinforcement it separates when
testing for compliance.
The spacer strips shall be separated by a distance equal to no less than
4
times an individual spacer's width. If any one particular strip has
varying width, the maximum width shall be used to determine the spacing.
If
2 adjacent strips have different widths, the spacer with the maximum width
shall be used to determine the spacing between these two strips.
At this point in time, this ruling applies to lightweight STRIPS serving
as
spacers. Questions concerning other forms of spacers should be directed
to
ccc@ftl.com.
One quick note... I appreciate you asking this question. Material usage
that may have passed the judges in previous competitions are not
necessarily legal. They must comply with the rules. Additionally,
committee rulings from 2 years ago do not apply to current rules.
Thank you for asking,
-Christelle Lindner
Co-Chair, Committee on National Concrete Canoe Competitions (CNCCC)
ccc@ftl.com
----------
> From: Charles Habermann <photo@winternet.com>
> To: ccc@ftl.com
> Cc: cjh@winternet.com
> Subject: PVC Foam...
> Date: Tuesday, November 10, 1998 6:48 PM
>
> Greetings from the snowy north!
>
> The University of MN has been building Concrete
> Canoes with PVC foam core for the last two years.
> We too were uncertain about the use of the foam so
> we send material samples to Tony Massing back in
> 1997. Although our canoe designs have yet to breach
> the "under fifty pound" club, we would still like to
> continue improving our designs. I have included the
> original email from Q&A #28 from Tony Massing dated
> January 13, 1997. We are using the PVC foam core as
> a core material in a classic composite construction
> technique (similar to Jensen or Wenonah Kevlar racers).
> I am unfamiliar with the term "spacer" as it pertains
> to canoe design or composite design. The University
> of Minnesota would like to continue using this Concrete
> Canoe building technique, however, we are uncertain
> how to interpret 1998 Q&A #15...
>
> Please advise.
>
Subject: canoe rules
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 15:55:26 -0500 (EST)
From: Claire Bourseleth <cab1@mundania.eng.wayne.edu>
Subject: canoe rules
Sender: owner-canoe@ftl.com
X-Sender: cab1@trent
To: canoe@ftl.com
MIME-version: 1.0
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Please Respond back to myself only! thanks
Question:
Is there anything in the rules that prohibits the use of finsihing
materials on the canoe. Last year was our first entry and we noticed many
schools had a latex finish, or sealer on the canoe. Is this permitted? If
so, are there any materials that can not be used?
2. With the reinforcing rules, is a polymer mesh ok as long as it meets
the 10 second sand test?
thank you,
Claire
--
Subject: Concrete Canoe Q&A #28
> Date: Mon, 13 Jan 97 09:18:58 -0800
> To: Charles Habermann <photo@winternet.com>
> Subject: Concrete Canoe Q&A #28
>
> On Sat, 11 Jan 1997, Charles Habermann wrote:
>
> > Thank you for reviewing the material samples I sent you. With regard
to
> > your question about successfully bonding concrete to PVC foam, I regret
> > that I must answer your question with a question. If I can
successfully
> > bond PVC foam to concrete, may I use it? As I am unfamiliar with this
> > competition, I am uncertain if this material is not permitted or simply
> > difficult to use. If this material is simply difficult or unwarranted
> > than I would like very much to accept the engineering challenge to use
> > it. If this material is not permitted or would fall under the race
rule
> > regulation as a "solid fiber mat or plate" then it would seem that I
> > would be headed back into the lab...
>
> The PVC foam is porous and can be made to bond mechanically with the
> concrete to meet the specification of the rule. The key word is
> "delaminating". The PVC foam is not specifically excluded. The word
> "plate" was written to apply to fiber.
>
> Mr. Habermann, your challenge, should you decide to accept it, would be
> to design a composite with PVC foam board that provides the tensile
> strength needed to withstand the structural loading of a canoe in
> transport and competition. Of course, as always, should you or your team
> be captured or swamped, the chairman will disavow and knowledge of your
> attempt. :-}'
>
> --
Subject: 99Q&A#18
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 17:48:51 -0600
From: Lindner <lindnerj@advicom.net>
Subject: Fw: 99Q&A#19
Sender: owner-canoe@ftl.com
To: smoro@globetrotter.net
Cc: canoe@ftl.com, ccc@ftl.com, cnccc@ftl.com
Reply-to: lindnerj@iquest.com
For some reason, this did not send out the first time, so I am forwarding
it to everyone.
----------
> From: Lindner <lindnerj@advicom.net>
> To: Sébastien Moreau <smoro@globetrotter.net>
> Cc: canoe@ftl.com; ccc@ftl.com; cnccc@ftl.com
> Subject: 99Q&A#18
> Date: Thursday, November 12, 1998 6:05 PM
>
> Sebastian,
>
> Yes, 4 people (2 men, 2 women) will be in the canoe at the same time. Be
> sure to subscribe to the canoe@ftl.com list server because this question
> was previously asked. You can get a lot of good information from the
> questions and answers that are broadcast. You can subscribe to this
list
> server by sending email to majordomo@ftl.com with a body of "subscribe
> canoe" or "subscribe canoe <your email address>".
>
> As for your entry, I do not have that information, but I can direct you
to
> someone who probably does. Send email to Ms. Ping Wei at
student@asce.org.
> She can help you with any information not related to rules
> interpretations.
>
> -Christelle Lindner
> Co-Chair, Committee on National Concrete Canoe Competitions (CNCCC)
> ccc@ftl.com
>
> ----------
> From: Sébastien Moreau <smoro@globetrotter.net>
> To: ccc@ftl.com
> Subject: Coed sprint-Response please!!
> Date: Wednesday, November 11, 1998 5:47 PM
>
>
> "The 2 person coed sprint has been modified to a 4 person coed sprint (2
> men, 2 women)."
> Is it mean that 4 person will be in the canoe at the same time??
>
> The canoe must be built for 4 person??
>
> Furthermore, I want to get confirmation that you have an entry for the
> Canadian Champion.
>
> I nead of your response soon.
> Thank you,
>
> I'm for the Committee on Canadian Concrete Canoe Competition,
> Sherbrooke University (Quebec) CANADA
> 7-9 may 1999, Sherbrooke
>
> Sebastien Moreau
> Rules Coordinator
> CNCB 1999
> Sherbrooke University
> 2500, Boul. de l'Université
> Civil Engineering Department
> Sherbrooke (Quebec) CANADA
> J1K 2R1
>
> PHONE (418) 766-3058 (home)
> (418) 768-2108 (job)
> FAX (418) 768-2320
> smoro@globetrotter.net
Subject: 99Q&A#20
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 17:33:25 -0600
From: Lindner <lindnerj@advicom.net>
Subject: 99Q&A#20
Sender: owner-canoe@ftl.com
To: "Angel R. Berríos" <arbe@coqui.net>
Cc: ccc@ftl.com, canoe@ftl.com, cnccc@ftl.com
Reply-to: lindnerj@iquest.com
Angel,
You may use an air entrainer in your concrete mix.
-Christelle Lindner
Co-Chair, Committee on National Concrete Canoe Competitions (CNCCC)
ccc@ftl.com
----------
Subject: 99Q&A#21
From: Angel R. Berríos <arbe@coqui.net>
To: Preguntas sobre la canoa!!! <ccc@ftl.com>
Subject:
Date: Monday, November 30, 1998 2:40 PM
Can we use air entrained mix??
Date: Wed, 02 Dec 1998 18:56:34 -0600
From: Lindner <lindnerj@advicom.net>
Subject: 99Q&A#21
Sender: owner-canoe@ftl.com
To: Russ Ingram <rdi@engr.uark.edu>
Cc: ccc@ftl.com, canoe@ftl.com, cnccc@ftl.com
Reply-to: lindnerj@iquest.com
Type III Portland cement is allowed.
-Christelle Lindner
Co-Chair, Committee on National Concrete Canoe Competitions (CNCCC)
ccc@ftl.com
----------
> From: Russ Ingram <rdi@engr.uark.edu>
> To: ccc@ftl.com
> Subject: Type III portland cement
> Date: Monday, November 30, 1998 10:54 PM
>
> Hi,
>
> Is type III portland cement allowed?
>
> --
>
Subject: 99Q&A#22
Date: Wed, 02 Dec 1998 19:00:48 -0600
From: Lindner <lindnerj@advicom.net>
Subject: 99Q&A#22
Sender: owner-canoe@ftl.com
To: canoe@ftl.com
Cc: ccc@ftl.com, cnccc@ftl.com
Reply-to: lindnerj@iquest.com
We have not specified any limitations on sealers/paints. However, it would
be in violation of the spirit of the competition if a canoe contained a
significant amount of sealer/paint. Therefore, use these in moderation.
Judges have been known to scrape the canoe to determine the thickness of
the paint. We want to avoid situations in which the finishing coats exceed
the thickness of the concrete. I would estimate that one layer of
sealer and maybe 1-3 layers of paint is acceptable. This also depends upon
the amount of sanding done on each layer. For instance, if you sand most
of the first layer off, you would be able to apply more sealer/paint.
-Christelle Lindner
Co-Chair, Committee on National Concrete Canoe Competitions (CNCCC)
ccc@ftl.com
> Is there anything in the rules that prohibits the use of finsihing
> materials on the canoe.
--
Subject: 99Q&A#23
Date: Tue, 08 Dec 1998 20:18:05 -0600
From: Lindner <lindnerj@advicom.net>
Subject: 99Q&A#23
Sender: owner-canoe@ftl.com
To: Robertson Belarmino <Robertson_Belarmino@student.uml.edu>
Cc: canoe@ftl.com, ccc@ftl.com, cnccc@ftl.com
Reply-to: lindnerj@iquest.com
Rob,
Absolutely. Two men and two women will be in the canoe simultaneously
during the coed sprint. This applies to all regions, including the New
England Regional. As hard as it is to believe, it is true. In fact, it
can be found in Rule IV.A.5 (please refer to this rule). We made this
modification to the coed sprint to challenge schools in both design and
paddling. It seems to be working. Good Luck!
-Christelle Lindner
Co-Chair, Committee on National Concrete Canoe Competitions (CNCCC)
ccc@ftl.com
----------
> From: Robertson Belarmino <Robertson_Belarmino@student.uml.edu>
> To: ccc@ftl.com
> Subject: design
> Date: Monday, December 07, 1998 3:16 PM
>
> Are the designs for the canoe in the New England regional race supposed
to
> be for
> two people?
>
> Because on one of the posted inforrmation on Lindner says that the design
> are supposed to be for four people.
>
> I just want to veriify this info !!
>
>
> Rob- Umass(Lowell)
> --
Subject: 99Q&A#24
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 19:27:47 -0600
From: Lindner <lindnerj@advicom.net>
Subject: 99Q&A#24
Sender: owner-canoe@ftl.com
To: "Angel R. Berríos" <arbe@coqui.net>
Cc: canoe@ftl.com, cnccc@ftl.com, ccc@ftl.com
Reply-to: lindnerj@iquest.com
Angel,
Rule II.A.3 prohibits the use of sponsor credit or commercialism on the
design report, display board, and canoe. It does not prohibit you from
displaying sponsor names on T-shirts, caps, life vest, presentation suit,
or practice canoe. There is no dress code for the presentation.
-Christelle Lindner
Co-Chair, Committee on National Concrete Canoe Competitions (CNCCC)
ccc@ftl.com
----------
From: Angel R. Berríos <arbe@coqui.net>
To: Preguntas sobre la canoa!!! <ccc@ftl.com>
Subject:
Date: Wednesday, December 09, 1998 9:08 PM
Can we advertise our sponsors on T-shirts, caps, etc.?
Is there any problem if we are dressed with clothing given by our sponsors
during the presentation or?
Is there any problem if we use our sponsor's name in our wet suit or life
jacket durin the competition?
Is there any dress code for the presentation?
In general, where can we put the names of our sponsors during the whole
competition?
Subject: 99Q&A#25
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 19:31:56 -0600
From: Lindner <lindnerj@advicom.net>
Subject: 99Q&A#25
Sender: owner-canoe@ftl.com
To: "STEFAN, PAULINE" <STEFAN@mail.hartford.edu>
Cc: canoe@ftl.com, cnccc@ftl.com, ccc@ftl.com
Reply-to: lindnerj@iquest.com
Pauline,
We recommend a minimum of 3 judges and a maximum of 5. Preferably, but not
required, the judges should
be connected to engineering, the concrete industry, or academics. This
will enable them to do a better job of judging.
Regional schools should attempt to get the technical papers to the judges
at least 3 weeks prior to the competition so they can score them and submit
questions to CNCCC before arriving at the regional competition. As far as
sponsors (those who donate money), they may be used as a judge, as long as
they can remain impartial (i.e., donating towards hosting regionals and not
to the host school in particular).
----------
> From: STEFAN, PAULINE <STEFAN@mail.hartford.edu>
> To: ccc@ftl.com
> Subject: judges question
> Date: Sunday, December 13, 1998 3:41 PM
>
>
> I was wondering what the qualification are for judges for the canoe
> competition? I was also wondering about how many we should have? My
> last question is if someone donates money to the competition for a school
> to sponsor it, can they be a judge. Thanks
>
> Pauline Stefan
> University of Hartford
>
>
> --
Subject: 99Q&A#26
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 18:08:00 -0600
From: Lindner <lindnerj@advicom.net>
Subject: 99Q&A#26
Sender: owner-canoe@ftl.com
To: Alexandros Bletsos <agbletsos@ucdavis.edu>
Cc: ccc@ftl.com, cnccc@ftl.com, canoe@ftl.com
Reply-to: lindnerj@iquest.com
MIME-version: 1.0
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Absolutely.
-Christelle Lindner
Co-Chair, Committee on National Concrete Canoe Competitions (CNCCC)
ccc@ftl.com
----------
> From: Alexandros Bletsos <agbletsos@ucdavis.edu>
> To: ccc@ftl.com
> Subject: Concrete Canoe Question
> Date: Friday, December 18, 1998 6:30 PM
>
> Dear Sir/Madam,
>
> I have a question regarding the rules of the concrete canoe competition:
>
> Can fibermesh polypropylene reinforcing fibers be added within the
concrete
> mix, to improve the concretes strength???
>
> Thank you,
> Alexander Bletsos
> '99 UC Davis Concrete Canoe
>
> ___________________________________
> Alexandros G. Bletsos
> University of California at Davis
> Civil & Environmental Engineering
> Email: agbletsos@ucdavis.edu
> ___________________________________
> --
Subject: 99Q&A#27
Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1999 18:18:50 -0600
From: Lindner <lindnerj@advicom.net>
Subject: 99Q&A#27
Sender: owner-canoe@ftl.com
To: "Angel R. Berríos" <arbe@coqui.net>
Cc: cnccc@ftl.com, ccc@ftl.com, canoe@ftl.com
Reply-to: lindnerj@iquest.com
MIME-version: 1.0
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Angel,
These materials are acceptable for use as aggregates. We caution the use
of foam when used as spacers for the reinforcement. This was previously
discussed in an earlier Q&A which I will repeat below.
This marks the beginning of the previous email:
*************************
>To the CNCCC:
>
>Awhile back, the naval architect that helped our school had came up with
an
>idea similar to UAH using balsa wood as a spacer. Instead of balsa, he
> recommended foam core. This foam is used in the canoe industry.
> Originally, I felt that the use of foam would be illegal because some
> may consider it "flotation" outside of the permitted 2 feet from the bow
>and/or stern. However, one can also say that anything weighing (or less
>dense) than water would /could be considered "flotation" and this would
>nclude balsa wood, foam, and even the concrete. So is foam core, cut
>n strips and used as spacers, legal?
You bring up a good point that we failed as a committee to consider this
year. Unfortunately, students may view this as a loop hole in the rules
in
order to increase flotation. Fortunately, students are not permitted to
spray on a foam layer and cut out holes by Rule II.C.7.b. However,
students may use foam strips as spacers. The problem arises when
considering the width of each strip and the spacing between them. A judge
may view too many strips with little spacing as violating the "spirit of
the competition". In that case, the judge is free to deduct as many points
as s/he deems appropriate. Our intention is to avoid such controversy.
The committee has decided that the usage of lightweight strips that meet
the following requirements should NOT result in a point deduction:
The spacer strips shall not be a solid mat or plate as specified in Rule
II.C.7.b. In Section VIII (FAQ) (pg. 31), a test has been identified to
determine whether or not the reinforcement complies with this rule. The
spacer strips shall be tested with the reinforcement it separates when
testing for compliance.
The spacer strips shall be separated by a distance equal to no less than
4
times an individual spacer's width. If any one particular strip has
varying width, the maximum width shall be used to determine the spacing.
If
2 adjacent strips have different widths, the spacer with the maximum width
shall be used to determine the spacing between these two strips.
At this point in time, this ruling applies to lightweight STRIPS serving
as
spacers. Questions concerning other forms of spacers should be directed
to
ccc@ftl.com.
************************************
This marks the end of the previous email.
Since your application is clearly as an aggregate in the concrete mix, you
are clearly within the rules.
-Christelle Lindner
Co-Chair, Committee on National Concrete Canoe Competitions (CNCCC)
ccc@ftl.com
----------
From: Angel R. Berríos <arbe@coqui.net>
To: Preguntas sobre la canoa!!! <ccc@ftl.com>
Subject:
Date: Wednesday, December 30, 1998 5:54 PM
Hi!
Can our team use foam and styropor as aggregates? Are they considered as
floating devices if we use them this way???
Plesae answer quickly, we're running out of time!!!!!
Thanks for your support,
Angel
--
Subject: 99Q&A#28
Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1999 19:54:16 -0600
From: Lindner <lindnerj@advicom.net>
Subject: 99Q&A#28
Sender: owner-canoe@ftl.com
To: Chucky <rryan@ecs.umass.edu>
Cc: canoe@ftl.com, cnccc@ftl.com, ccc@ftl.com
Reply-to: lindnerj@iquest.com
MIME-version: 1.0
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Rob,
Four people must be in the canoe during the race. If, for example, you do
not have 2 female paddlers to fill the position, then according to Rule
IV.A.5.d, you may substitute the empty positions with 2 registered male
paddlers. However, these paddlers may not paddle. They are merely place
holders and will just sit in the canoe during the race. They are not
allowed to help with the effort. If a paddler is injured during the
competition and cannot compete in the co-ed sprint, then you must
substitute with a registered paddler of the same gender. Once again, this
paddler is merely a place holder and cannot paddle the canoe during the
race.
If you encounter a situation in which you have an injured paddler between
the preliminary and final sprints, and/or you do not have enough paddlers
of a certain gender to fill the positions, then the judges must be notified
prior to the race so that an appropriate substitute (registered
participant) place holder may be made.
Once again, there must be 4 occupants in the canoe during the co-ed
sprint...
-Christelle Lindner
Co-Chair, Committee on National Concrete Canoe Competitions (CNCCC)
ccc@ftl.com
----------
> From: Chucky <rryan@ecs.umass.edu>
> To: ccc@ftl.com
> Subject: 4-person race
> Date: Tuesday, January 05, 1999 8:03 PM
>
> I wanted to confirm that the coed race will consist of four paddlers in
> one boat?
>
> If this is the case, do four people have to race or can two substitute
> for four?
>
> Thank You from UMass, Amhesrt
>
> Rob Ryan
> ASCE Co-President
> --
Subject: 99Q&A#29
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 20:58:49 -0600
From: Lindner <lindnerj@advicom.net>
Subject: 99Q&A#29
Sender: owner-canoe@ftl.com
To: THOMAS M NGO <thomasn@ucla.edu>
Cc: canoe@ftl.com, ccc@ftl.com, cnccc@ftl.com
Reply-to: lindnerj@iquest.com
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Thomas,
According to Rule I.F, a team can register up to 5 male and 5 female
participants (no mention of alternates). This is the maximum number of
participants of each gender we are allowing. I think that you will find
that with some training of the paddlers, these individuals will have no
difficulty in paddling in more than one event. Not too long ago, we used
to limit the number of paddlers to 2 of each gender. These paddlers were
required to paddle all of the races. Therefore, we are confident that each
team will be able to meet the challenge with 5 of each gender.
-Christelle Lindner
Co-Chair, Committee on National Concrete Canoe Competitions (CNCCC)
ccc@ftl.com
----------
> From: THOMAS M NGO <thomasn@ucla.edu>
> To: ccc@ftl.com
> Subject: paddlers
> Date: Thursday, January 14, 1999 5:01 PM
>
> To whom it may concern,
>
> I had a question about the number of team members and paddlers that can
> participate in the paddling competition. In the rules, it states that
> there will be ten team members and two alternates. Now I want to if all
> ten members could paddle, and also how about the alternates. Since the
> races would require six males, and six females to compete in all the
> races without overlapping. Or do we have to have people overlap? Please
> let me know as soon as possible. Thank you
>
> Thomas
>
>
> --
Subject: 99Q&A#30
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 17:34:36 -0600
From: Lindner <lindnerj@advicom.net>
Subject: 99Q&A#30
Sender: owner-canoe@ftl.com
To: jeri.loucks@asu.edu
Cc: ccc@ftl.com, cnccc@ftl.com, canoe@ftl.com
Reply-to: lindnerj@iquest.com
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Jeri,
We do not impose a limit on the type of fibers used in the mix design, so
these fibers should be acceptable.
-Christelle Lindner
Co-Chair, Committee on National Concrete Canoe Competitions (CNCCC)
ccc@ftl.com
----------
> From: Baritone Goddess <dajer123@imap2.asu.edu>
> To: ccc@ftl.com
> Subject: Materials
> Date: Wednesday, January 20, 1999 12:29 PM
>
> To who it may concern,
> I am on the ASU concrete team. I was wondering if we could use
> Harbourite fibers in the mix design.
> Please e-mail me at jeri.loucks@asu.edu.
>
>
> Thank you
>
> Jeri Loucks
>
>
> --
Subject: 99Q&A#31
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 17:54:42 -0600
From: Lindner <lindnerj@advicom.net>
Subject: 99Q&A#31
Sender: owner-canoe@ftl.com
To: "BRENT A. BROWN" <BROWNBR@uwplatt.edu>
Cc: ccc@ftl.com, cnccc@ftl.com, canoe@ftl.com
Reply-to: lindnerj@iquest.com
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Brent,
This external keel falls under Rule II.B.8 which states that:
"Any external protrusion(s) shall be made of the same materials as the hull
and shall be permanently attached to the hull."
This means that the keel must be made of concrete with reinforcement and
must be permanently attached throughout the competition. If it is not
permanently attached at the competition, you will receive zero final
product points. We suggest you test the keel out in various positions
during your design and prototype testing phase. The keel can be moveable
on your prototype, but must be permanently attached to your concrete canoe
at the competition.
-Christelle Lindner
Co-Chair, Committee on National Concrete Canoe Competitions (CNCCC)
ccc@ftl.com
----------
> From: BRENT A. BROWN <BROWNBR@uwplatt.edu>
> To: ccc@ftl.com
> Subject: Rules Question
> Date: Tuesday, January 26, 1999 10:42 AM
>
> HI
>
> We are thinking of using an external keel. Does the keel have to be
> "permanently fixed and made out of the same material" as the rest of the
canoe?
> We are thinking of allowing the keel to pivot until we can get the canoe
> traveling in a straight line. Once it's going straight, we'll
permanently
> attach the keel.
>
> thanks
>
> Brent Brown
>
> --
Subject: 99Q&A#32
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 17:58:34 -0600
From: Lindner <lindnerj@advicom.net>
Subject: 99Q&A#32
Sender: owner-canoe@ftl.com
To: Dana Stewart <dls7@siu.edu>
Cc: ccc@ftl.com, canoe@ftl.com, cnccc@ftl.com
Reply-to: lindnerj@iquest.com
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Dana,
This question was previously asked, so I will repeat the response below:
>Pauline,
>
>We recommend a minimum of 3 judges and a maximum of 5. Preferably, but
not
>required, the judges should
>be connected to engineering, the concrete industry, or academics. This
>will enable them to do a better job of judging.
>Regional schools should attempt to get the technical papers to the judges
>at least 3 weeks prior to the competition so they can score them and
submit
>questions to CNCCC before arriving at the regional competition. As far as
>sponsors (those who donate money), they may be used as a judge, as long as
>they can remain impartial (i.e., donating towards hosting regionals and
not
>to the host school in particular).
>
>
>>----------
>> From: STEFAN, PAULINE <STEFAN@mail.hartford.edu>
>>To: ccc@ftl.com
>> Subject: judges question
>> Date: Sunday, December 13, 1998 3:41 PM
>>
>>
>> I was wondering what the qualification are for judges for the canoe
>> competition? I was also wondering about how many we should have? My
>> last question is if someone donates money to the competition for a
school
>>
>> to sponsor it, can they be a judge. Thanks
>>
>> Pauline Stefan
>> University of Hartford
>>
----------
> From: Dana Stewart <dls7@siu.edu>
> To: ccc@ftl.com
> Subject: Judges
> Date: Tuesday, January 26, 1999 12:01 AM
>
> What is a recommended number of judges to have for the canoe
competition?
>
> Dana Stewart
> --
Subject: Safety & Concrete Canoe Construction
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 16:00:22 -0800
From: John Dracup <jdracup@ucla.edu>
Subject: Safety & Concrete Canoe Construction
Sender: owner-canoe@ftl.com
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Dear Concrete Canoe builders: Do any of you have health and safety plans
that are specifically written for the concrete canoe construction? If so,
could you email or fax (310-206-7245) them to me. UCLA is requiring us to
formulate a health & safety plan, asap. When we have finished it we will
put it on this list serve for all to critique and/or use. Thanks and
best regards, John Dracup
**********************************************************
Professor John A. Dracup
5732 Boelter Hall
UCLA
Civil & Environmental Engineering Dept.
Box 951593
Los Angeles, CA. 90095-1593
dracup@seas.ucla.edu
Phone: 310-825-2176
FAX: 310-206-7245
http://www.seas.ucla.edu/~dracup
Director, Center for Study of Hydroclimatology in the Pacific Rim (CHPR)
**********************************************************
Subject: 99Q&A#33
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 18:51:44 -0600
From: Lindner <lindnerj@advicom.net>
Subject: 99Q&A#33
Sender: owner-canoe@ftl.com
To: Jon Coign <jcoign@mindspring.com>
Cc: ccc@ftl.com, cnccc@ftl.com, canoe@ftl.com
Reply-to: lindnerj@iquest.com
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----------
> From: Jon Coign <jcoign@mindspring.com>
> To: ccc@ftl.com
> Subject: Reinforcement Questions Regarding Gunwales and Thwarts
> Date: Wednesday, February 03, 1999 11:03 AM
>
> We have been working on finalizing the reinforcement scheme for our canoe
> this year. In the process we have come across a couple of questions.
Section
> II-B-3 states that transverse structural elements shall be constructed of
> the same reinforcing materials, reinforcement, and concrete as used in
the
> hull of the canoe. Our first question is what parts of the boat are
> encompassed in the "Hull". We are aware that the gunwales do not have to
be
> of the same reinforcement scheme as the rest of the hull. However, we are
> not sure if the gunwales are considered part of the hull such that the
> material and reinforcement used in the gunwale can be used in the
thwarts.
> Additionally if this is not the case would a material strip used under
the
> bottom of the bow for impact strength be legal for use in the thwarts. If
> this is legal then how much of this material would have to be used under
the
> bow, please note the material being referred to would be a thin walled C
> channel.
The reinforcing material, reinforcement, and concrete used in the gunwale
may be used in the thwart. If the thwart is to be made of a
reinforcement/concrete scheme used elsewhere in the hull, this is valid as
well.
As for the amount of the reinforcement scheme that must be used elsewhere
in the canoe to allow for usage of it in the thwart.....if the
reinforcement scheme used somewhere in the hull plays a smaller role than
the overall reinforcement, it must be justifiable, i.e. you may not put
1/4" long piece of reinforcement anywhere in the hull for the sole purpose
of using it in the thwart.
> Secondly, one of the questions in the frequently asked question section
> states we are using tubing for the gunwale. From this we got the idea for
> placing a thin wall piece of c channel along the gunwale of the canoe
> completely filling the channel with concrete. (the rest of the hull will
be
> a carbon fiber sandwich section) Is this legal? Additionally if this is
> legal does the outside of the channel have to be covered with concrete or
> can we leave the integrally cast metal C channel gunwale reinforcement
> exposed for clear coating? I ask the question with regards to II-C-6-c,
> which states no post manufacturer coatings on reinforcement. However, I
was
> not sure if paint (whether color or clear) constituted a coating in
regards
> to aluminum C channels as this would in no way add strength or be able to
> stiffen the material.
You may use the C-channel in the gunwale, but it must be entirely covered
with concrete because paint of any type constitutes a post-manufacturer
applied coating which is illegal by Rule II.C.6.c. which states, "No
post-manufacturer applied coating of any kind is permitted on any
reinforcing materials."
>
> Further if the gunwale constitutes part of the hull as previously
mentioned
> and C channel integrally reinforcing top of the gunwale is also legal
would
> it be legal to make the thwarts from this same scenario. Attaching the
two
> with mechanical fasteners such as screws or rivets provided the entire
> structure is integrally cast into the hull and done so solely using the
same
> concrete as used in the entire boat?
This is acceptable provided that the interior and exterior of the
C-channels are covered with concrete.
>
> Sincerely,
> Jon Coign
>
> University of Alabama in Huntsville ASCE Chapter President
> jcoign@mindspring.com
>
> --
Subject: Concrete Canoe Rules
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 10:36:05 -0500
From: Brad Putman <BPUTMAN@CLEMSON.EDU>
Subject: Concrete Canoe Rules
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Dear Committe,
We have a couple of questions regarding one of our reinforcement options
and the design paper.
Reinforcement
We are looking at testing a polypropylene fabric that is coated, by the
manufacturer, with a PVC emulsion. The manufacturer has confirmed that the
coating will not react or activate over time. Is this in compliance with
the new rules regarding the reinforcing materials and their coatings?
Design Paper
Can we print on the back of the front cover, compliance certification, and
table of contents and not have it count as part of the 11 page body or 2
page appendix? The printing would not be text or graphs, it would be
pictures or something of the sort.
Thanks,
Brad Putman & Ron Anderson
Subject: 99Q&A#34
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 1999 16:27:56 -0600
From: Lindner <lindnerj@advicom.net>
Subject: 99Q&A#34
Sender: owner-canoe@ftl.com
To: Dave Nevius <nevius1@uakron.edu>
Cc: canoe@ftl.com, ccc@ftl.com, cnccc@ftl.com
Reply-to: lindnerj@iquest.com
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Dave,
If this material does not activate over time due to ambient heating, then
it sounds ok. Materials that activate over time due to ambient heating
typically require some sort of refrigeration, such as pre-impregnated
carbon fiber tape. If you are unsure, contact the manufacturer and obtain
a written statement because you may be asked to verify this by the judges.
-Christelle Lindner
Co-Chair, Committee on National Concrete Canoe Competitions (CNCCC)
ccc@ftl.com
----------
> From: Dave Nevius <nevius1@uakron.edu>
> To: ccc@ftl.com
> Subject:
> Date: Thursday, February 04, 1999 1:07 PM
>
> I have a question, similar to what was posted in this year's canoe rules.
> We are contemplating the use of fiberglass scrim fabric. The scrim
fabric
> is coated with acrylic and vinyl acetate copolymers. We will not be
> applying or activating any further polymers. Are we in compliance with
Rule
> C II.6?
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Dave Nevius
> University of Akron Concrete
Canoe Team
> ***************************
> * Dave Nevius *
> * 423 Sumner Street *
> * Akron, Ohio 44304 *
> * (330) 762-4135 *
> * nevius1@uakron.edu *
> ***************************
Subject: 99Q&A#35
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 1999 16:23:14 -0600
From: Lindner <lindnerj@advicom.net>
Subject: 99Q&A#35
Sender: owner-canoe@ftl.com
To: "Karyn A. Eichler" <keichler@acsu.buffalo.edu>
Cc: canoe@ftl.com, ccc@ftl.com, cnccc@ftl.com
Reply-to: lindnerj@iquest.com
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Karyn,
You will have to contact your Regional host for the report deadline. If
you do not know who is hosting your region, and/or you do not know the
contact person at the host school, contact Ping Wei at student@asce.org.
She will be able to help you with that.
Admixtures are allowed in the mix design.
-Christelle Lindner
Co-Chair, Committee on National Concrete Canoe Competitions (CNCCC)
ccc@ftl.com
----------
> From: Karyn A. Eichler <keichler@acsu.buffalo.edu>
> To: ccc@ftl.com
> Subject: Re:Mix Design
> Date: Thursday, February 04, 1999 4:53 PM
>
> What is the post mark date deadline to send the report in?
> Can we use admixtures in our mix design to reduce the cureing time?(ie.
> High-early?)
>
> Thank you
>
> Karyn A. Eichler
> keichler@buffalo.edu
>
>
> --
Subject: 99Q&A#36
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 18:35:43 -0600
From: Lindner <lindnerj@advicom.net>
Subject: 99Q&A#36
Sender: owner-canoe@ftl.com
To: Brian McKissen <mckissen@bignet.net>
Cc: canoe@ftl.com, ccc@ftl.com, cnccc@ftl.com
Reply-to: lindnerj@iquest.com
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Brian,
The Compliance Certificate is not part of the eleven page limit according
to Rules III.A.1-2.
If you include an appendix cover, it will be included as part of the 2 page
appendix limit. Rule III.A.1 does not allow for an extra page serving as
an appendix cover. The extraneous pages are not needed and only hinder
reproduction.
-Christelle Lindner
Co-Chair, Committee on National Concrete Canoe Competitions (CNCCC)
ccc@ftl.com
----------
> From: Brian McKissen <mckissen@bignet.net>
> To: ccc@ftl.com
> Subject: Report
> Date: Sunday, February 07, 1999 1:05 PM
>
> Is the Compliance Certificate part of the eleven page limit for the
> design paper? Also is an appendix cover page part of the two page
> appendix limit?
>
> Brian McKissen
>
> --
Subject: 99Q&A#37
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 18:41:02 -0600
From: Lindner <lindnerj@advicom.net>
Subject: 99Q&A#37
Sender: owner-canoe@ftl.com
To: "Blundon, Andrew" <andrew.blundon@hibernia.ca>
Cc: canoe@ftl.com, ccc@ftl.com, cnccc@ftl.com
Reply-to: lindnerj@iquest.com
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Andrew,
You may use different forms of reinforcement and concrete mixes throughout
the hull as long as you document this usage in the design report. Of
course, all reinforcements and concrete mixes must comply with the rules in
Section II.
-Christelle Lindner
Co-Chair, Committee on National Concrete Canoe Competitions (CNCCC)
ccc@ftl.com
----------
> From: Blundon, Andrew <andrew.blundon@hibernia.ca>
> To: 'National Concrete Canoe Committee' <ccc@ftl.com>
> Cc: Dutton, Taryn <dutton@engr.mun.ca>; Georghiou, Andreas @ IMD
<ageorghiou@minnie.imd.nrc.ca>; Gleason, Roxanne <gleason@engr.mun.ca>;
Horwood, Karen <khorwood@minnie.imd.nrc.ca>; Osmond, Ian
<osmond@engr.mun.ca>; Phillips, Jason <Jason_Philips/NLHydro@nlh.nf.ca>;
Stuckless, Mark <mark@engr.mun.ca>; Trevor Bolt <trevor.bolt@hibernia.ca>
> Subject: Reinforcement and Concrete
> Date: Monday, February 08, 1999 9:49 AM
>
> We are taking part in the Canadian competition which uses the same rules
as
> the Americain competition.
>
> 2 questions:
>
> Are we allowed to use different forms of reinforcement in the hull of the
> canoe, in other words a mixture - using lightweight reinforcement (a
> fibreglass mesh say) in low stress areas and heavier reinforcement
(welded
> wire mesh say) in high stress areas?
>
> Also, does the same concrete mix design have to be used throughout the
hull.
> Let's say, for example, we use tubbing. Are we allowed to fill it with a
> super lightweight concrete providing it meets the concrete specs. or does
> the same mix design have to be used throughout?
>
> Thanks for your help,
> Andrew Blundon
>
> _____________________
> Andrew J. Blundon
> Civil Engineering Class of 2000
> Memorial University of Newfoundland
> Work Term V - AOC Brown and Root
> Buis. Tel: (709) 778-7734
> Alternate E-Mail: blundon@engr.mun.ca
> Web Page: www.engr.mun.ca/~blundon
>
>
>
> --
Subject: 99Q&A#38
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 18:45:48 -0600
From: Lindner <lindnerj@advicom.net>
Subject: 99Q&A#38
Sender: owner-canoe@ftl.com
To: Lawrence Mestan <zeke@drgw.net>
Cc: canoe@ftl.com, ccc@ftl.com, cnccc@ftl.com
Reply-to: lindnerj@iquest.com
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Lawrence,
Graduate students are eligible to paddle provided that they comply with
Rule 1.G which states:
"Registered participants shall be engineering students during the 1998/99
academic year in which the canoe was constructed, shall be members of an
ASCE Student Chapter or Club in good standing, and shall have contributed
to the design and construction of the canoe. A person may act as a
registered participant for no more than 5 years (consecutive or
non-consecutive). There are no term limits for participation in other
roles."
-Christelle Lindner
Co-Chair, Committee on National Concrete Canoe Competitions (CNCCC)
ccc@ftl.com
----------
> From: Lawrence Mestan <zeke@drgw.net>
> To: Lindner <lindnerj@advicom.net>
> Subject: Paddler Eligiblilty
> Date: Monday, February 08, 1999 12:00 PM
>
>
> I was wondering if a graduate student at our school would be elegible to
> paddle during the races... there has been some question about it.
>
> Thanks
>
> Lawrence Mestan
> Iowa State University
> Concrete Canoe Chair
> zeke@drgw.net
>
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> Rearden laughed, "Eddie, what do we care about people like him? We're
> driving an express, and they're riding on the roof, making a lot of noise
> about being leaders. Why should we care? We have enough power to carry
> them along -- haven't we?"
>
> --Ayn Rand's 'Atlas Shrugged'
>
> Work like money doesn't matter,
> Love like you've never been hurt,
> And dance like no one is watching.
>
> --unknown
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
--
Subject: 99Q&A#39
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 18:50:16 -0600
From: Lindner <lindnerj@advicom.net>
Subject: 99Q&A#39
Sender: owner-canoe@ftl.com
To: canoe@ftl.com
Cc: canoe@ftl.com, cnccc@ftl.com
Reply-to: lindnerj@iquest.com
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Sven,
Flyash does chemically react to form binding materials. Therefore, it
must,
of course, be included in the non-portland-cement weight of binder.
Glass cenospheres do not react to become part of the binder. Therefore,
the
weight of these cenospheres should not be counted as binder weight, but
more appropriately as aggregate.
Whether or not a substance is solid is not relevant except for the fact
that
it is understood that water, even though it does react to become part of
the
binding materials, is not to be included in the non-portland-cement weight
of binder.
A superplasticizer affects the properties of the mixture before it sets
up,
but the superplasticizer does not react to form binders. Therefore, the
superplasticizer should not be included in the
non-portland-cement weight of binder.
-Christelle Lindner
Co-Chair, Committee on National Concrete Canoe Competitions (CNCCC)
ccc@ftl.com
> We are incorporating flyash and microscopic glass cenospheres in our mix
> design. Since the cenospheres do not react chemically, am I correct that
> only the flyash needs to be considered in the 75% rule? We are using a
> liquid superplasticiser. Since this is not a solid substance, does it
> count in the weight proportion of biding material?
>
> Sven Hombach
> Canoe Chair --- University of North Dakota
>
>
--
Subject: 99Q&A#40
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 18:29:02 -0600
From: Lindner <lindnerj@advicom.net>
Subject: 99Q&A#40
Sender: owner-canoe@ftl.com
To: Brad Putman <BPUTMAN@CLEMSON.EDU>
Cc: canoe@ftl.com, cnccc@ftl.com
Reply-to: lindnerj@iquest.com
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Brad,
It sounds as if your fabric is acceptable regarding reinforcing materials
and their coatings. A written statement from the manufacturer would be
beneficial to bring to the competition with you in case you are questioned
by the judges. Be sure the fabric meets the other reinforcement
requirements (hole size, etc.).
We have had several questions regarding use of photographs in the report.
Rule III.A.5 "Photographs, tables, line drawings, graphs, headers, and
footers shall be permitted and counted as part of the eleven page as
defined in Section III.A.1. These items shall not be restricted to the
margin and body text requirements of Section III.A.3 and 4." Technically
speaking, all pages with photographs should be counted a part of the eleven
pages. This was not our intent, so we have come to a decision regarding
the proper usage of photographs. In addition to the photographs permitted
as part of the eleven page limit, our final decision is to allow
photographs on one side of each cover, and the Certification Page (1 side).
However, photographs on the covers and Certification Page may not contain
descriptions or titles and cannot be referred to in the body text. If the
Table of Contents contains photographs, they will be included as part of
the eleven page limit.
----------
> From: Brad Putman <BPUTMAN@CLEMSON.EDU>
> To: cnccc@ftl.com
> Subject: Concrete Canoe Rules
> Date: Tuesday, February 09, 1999 9:20 AM
>
> Dear Committe,
>
> We have a couple of questions regarding one of our reinforcement options
> and the design paper.
>
> Reinforcement
> We are looking at testing a polypropylene fabric that is coated, by the
> manufacturer, with a PVC emulsion. The manufacturer has confirmed that
the
> coating will not react or activate over time. Is this in compliance with
> the new rules regarding the reinforcing materials and their coatings?
>
> Design Paper
> Can we print on the back of the front cover, compliance certification,
and
> table of contents and not have it count as part of the 11 page body or 2
> page appendix? The printing would not be text or graphs, it would be
> pictures or something of the sort.
>
> Thanks,
> Brad Putman & Ron Anderson
>
>
> --
Subject: 99Q&A#41
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 18:36:23 -0600
From: Lindner <lindnerj@advicom.net>
Subject: 99Q&A#41
Sender: owner-canoe@ftl.com
To: hem2@cornell.edu
Cc: canoe@ftl.com, cnccc@ftl.com, ccc@ftl.com
Reply-to: lindnerj@iquest.com
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H.M.,
These are the difficult questions that need to be asked because they fall
within that gray area in the rules. Rule II.A.3 states that "Sponsor
credit or commercialism is not permitted on the design report, display
board, or canoe." We had several questions last year regarding that rule
and basically did not allow any display of trademarked names or company
names. However, I think that we may have gone to an extreme at that point.
This year, the legality is based on the intent of the theme. If your
purpose is to display the bike, regardless of the brand, I think that is
acceptable. When you present the bike for the purpose of displaying its
particular brand, you run into trouble. For instance, if you are promoting
a cycling theme, a bike is acceptable. If you are promoting
Harley-Davidson, that could be construed as commercialism because that is a
trademark name. To throw in a little confusion, if Harley-Davidson is a
sponsor, any display of that name would be illegal regardless of the intent
of the theme.
Let me know if this is confusing, because we do not want problems to arise
at the competition.
-Christelle Lindner
Co-Chair, Committee on National Concrete Canoe Competitions (CNCCC)
ccc@ftl.com
----------
> From: hem2@cornell.edu
> To: ccc@ftl.com
> Subject: Display
> Date: Tuesday, February 09, 1999 7:18 PM
>
> Hi,
>
> I was wondering if you could tell me what type of "product" cannot be
> included in the display board. For example, is a bike with a brand name
> sprayed on it illegal? Is anything of that sort illegal? What if you had
> a picture of a harley-davidson motorcycle? Is this considered
commercialism?
>
>
> Thanks-
> H.M.
> Cornell
> --
Subject: 99Q&A#42
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 11:36:31 -0600
From: Lindner <lindnerj@advicom.net>
Subject: 99Q&A#42
Sender: owner-canoe@ftl.com
To: Jon Coign <jcoign@mindspring.com>
Cc: canoe@ftl.com, ccc@ftl.com, cnccc@ftl.com
Reply-to: lindnerj@iquest.com
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Jon
If the channel is sold by the manufacturer anodized, then it is acceptable
since it does not activate over time.
-Christelle Lindner
Co-Chair, Committee on National Concrete Canoe Competitions (CNCCC)
ccc@ftl.com
----------
> From: Jon Coign <jcoign@mindspring.com>
> To: ccc@ftl.com
> Subject: Manufacturer's Coatings
> Date: Wednesday, February 10, 1999 11:22 PM
>
> I recently inquired about the use of C channel in the gunwale and thwarts
in
> the canoes. I had an additional question on this topic regarding
protective
> coatings on metal channel's. If aluminum channel was used would anodizing
> (done by the manufacturer) be allowable?
>
> Thanks,
> Jon Coign
> UAH ASCE Chapter
>
> --
Subject: 99Q&A#43
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 19:17:37 -0600
From: Lindner <lindnerj@advicom.net>
Subject: 99Q&A#43
Sender: owner-canoe@ftl.com
To: nxc14@po.cwru.edu
Cc: ncapaldi@osborn-eng.com, canoe@ftl.com, ccc@ftl.com, cnccc@ftl.com
Reply-to: lindnerj@iquest.com
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Nathan,
You are correct. According to Rule II.B.3, "...Transverse structural
elements shall be constructed of the same reinforcing materials,
reinforcement, and concrete as used in the hull of the canoe..."
If the hull is made of fiberglass and does not include rebar, then the ribs
cannot be made of rebar. The ribs would have to be made of the same
fiberglass mesh as used in the hull. However, if the hull includes rebar,
then the ribs could be constructed of rebar.
-Christelle Lindner
Co-Chair, Committee on National Concrete Canoe Competitions (CNCCC)
ccc@ftl.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-ccc@ftl.com [mailto:owner-ccc@ftl.com] On Behalf Of Nathan
> Capaldi
> Sent: Sunday, February 14, 1999 11:05 PM
> To: ccc@ftl.com
> Subject: Rule Clarification
>
>
> To whom it may concern,
>
> I would like clarification on rule II.B.3. My interpretation is that it
I
> use steel mesh and rebars in the hull and I also have ribs as transverse
> structural elements then I can use steel mesh and rebars to reinforce the
> ribs. I could not, for example, use fibreglass mesh in the hull and
steel
> rebar in the ribs. Is this interpretation correct? Thanks.
>
>
>
> Nathan Capaldi |"If you're going to go out of the norm,
> nxc14@po.cwru.edu | go all the way out."
> ncapaldi@osborn-eng.com |Frank Zappa
--
Subject: 99Q&A#44
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 19:27:48 -0600
From: Lindner <lindnerj@advicom.net>
Subject: 99Q&A#44
Sender: owner-canoe@ftl.com
To: jhoban@Mines.EDU
Cc: canoe@ftl.com, cnccc@ftl.com, ccc@ftl.com
Reply-to: lindnerj@iquest.com
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Jacob,
All four participants in the coed race are allowed to paddle provided that
they are all registered participants of the correct gender AND a
substitution was not made between the preliminaries and finals.
We are insisting that 4 people be in the canoe for this race, therefore we
have provided specific instructions in the rules to ensure that the boat
will be mass loaded with the correct number of people even through the
worst of circumstances. For instance, if a school has no females, the
co-ed team would consist of 4 registered men, 2 of which cannot paddle.
They would serve as place holders. Or, if an injury occurs between the
prelims and finals and that paddler cannot paddle, a) they can sit in the
canoe and not paddle, or b) a registered participant of the same gender as
the injured would serve as the place holder and not paddle.
-Christelle Lindner
Co-Chair, Committee on National Concrete Canoe Competitions (CNCCC)
ccc@ftl.com
----------
> From: Hoban, Jacob Myers <jhoban@mines.edu>
> To: ccc@ftl.com
> Subject: Rule confirmation.
> Date: Monday, February 15, 1999 3:58 PM
>
> We understand that the co-ed race for this years competition requires
> two men and two women, but is each member in the boat allowed to paddle,
> or just two?
> --
Subject: 99Q&A#45
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 19:17:07 -0600
From: Lindner <lindnerj@advicom.net>
Subject: 99Q&A#45
Sender: owner-canoe@ftl.com
To: Scott Rutledge <scott@cowboy.net>
Cc: canoe@ftl.com, ccc@ftl.com, cnccc@ftl.com
Reply-to: lindnerj@iquest.com
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Scott,
The responses to your 4 questions follow each question, respectively.
----------
> From: Scott Rutledge <scott@cowboy.net>
> To: ccc@ftl.com
> Subject: 4 quick questions never asked before now :)
> Date: Saturday, February 13, 1999 1:44 AM
>
> Hello CNCCC,
>
> I have got a couple of quick questions for you. I have deeply scoured
the
> "Frequently Asked Questions" and questions 99Q&A#1 - #41 and I believe
that
> I have a couple of "new questions." I know that you are probably
wondering
> how this can be possible. Furthermore, you will probably simply quote me
an
> answer straight from the rules as you have already done many times this
> year, but I am brave enough to have my intelligence questioned in the
> pursuit of answers to the following questions: :)
>
> 1) In section III.A.7 the rules state "reports must adhere to the
following
> format: a., b., etc... Well I was wondering if I could put sections h
and
> j directly following section c.? (take your time with this one because I
> really need an excuse to put off writing the paper for a couple more
days.)
Do not change the order of the sections. This makes the judges' job harder
and that makes them unhappy. They are liable to deduct format points for
such a change.
>
> 2) In section II.D.3.b the rules state "[pads or cushions] shall be
limited
> to a contact surface area meeting the following requirements: b. 50% of
the
> interior cross sectional perimeter of the canoe..." The way that I read
> this rule, a block could be as large as desired, provided that it does
not
> "contact" more than 50% of the cross-section. Therefore, a block could
> cover the entire cross-section provided it had "grooves" - areas that
> contacted the surface and areas that did not - with the total contact
> surface not exceeding 50%.
This interpretation is not acceptable according to the intent of this rule
which is to eliminate pads that follow the contour of the cross section of
the canoe, thereby providing resistance to inward flexure of the side of
the canoe. The committee views 50% of the perimeter as a continuous
measurement, so grooves will not be subtracted out of this value.
>
> 3) I would like a "Presidential" definition of "perforations" as used in
> section II.C.7.b. Just kidding, the simpler answer to this question
would
> be as follows: If UAH had received the balsa wood spacers used in last
> years canoe design as a 4x8 sheet - which would require them to cut it -
> would this be illegal according to the 1999 rules and regulations?
No. Strips of reinforcement and/or spacers may be used. The rule is
provided to eliminate the use of solid sheets of reinforcement with a
strategic hole or 2 placed in order to pass the "open space" test which is
described in the FAQ section of the rules. Schools are permitted to cut
their reinforcement into strips.
>
> 4) These questions just keep getting harder, but this is the last one, I
> promise. In section II.B.6.a the rules state "Reinforcing materials
shall
> provide stiffness by forming a composite system with the concrete." What
> do you consider "stiff?" The steel bridge rules identify rigid members
as
> members which would be damaged by coiling. To me this would include such
> things as most rebar, tubing, and structural shapes (lightweight I-beams
or
> channels). Each of these items provide substantial stiffness without
> forming a composite system with concrete.
>
We have not provided any limitations on stiffness. Our position is that
the
reinforcement must have its own inherent stiffness and anything that is
done by thermo or chemical activation to increase that stiffness is
illegal.
-Christelle Lindner
Co-Chair, Committee on National Concrete Canoe Competitions (CNCCC)
ccc@ftl.com
> Thank you for allowing me to bend your ear, and I look forward to hearing
> from you. :)
>
> Sincerely,
> Scott Rutledge
> Advocate of the Greatest Education Experience offered to Civil
Engineering
> Students - Building a Concrete Canoe
> OSU Concrete Canoe
>
> --
Subject: 99Q&A#46
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 19:25:29 -0600
From: Lindner <lindnerj@advicom.net>
Subject: 99Q&A#46
Sender: owner-canoe@ftl.com
To: Gil Ramirez <gramirez@fit.edu>
Cc: canoe@ftl.com, ccc@ftl.com, cnccc@ftl.com
Reply-to: lindnerj@iquest.com
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Gil,
We have provided a sentence to the rules to allow for refinishing of the
canoes between Regionals and Nationals provided there is damage to the
canoe (II.B.1). I am certain that your canoe will experience some form of
damage during the competition, whether it be in the form of major repairs
or minor repairs for damage such as cracks. Therefore, repainting of the
canoe will probably be justified. At this point in time, we do not have a
rule against changing paint color prior to Nationals, so we are permitting
that as well.
-Christelle Lindner
Co-Chair, Committee on National Concrete Canoe Competitions (CNCCC)
ccc@ftl.com
----------
> From: Gil Ramirez <gramirez@fit.edu>
> To: Concrete Canoe Committee <ccc@ftl.com>
> Subject: Paint Job questions
> Date: Sunday, February 14, 1999 12:48 AM
>
> Dear Sir,
>
> As you know, Florida Tech will be hosting the 1999 competition, and has
> an automatic bid to compete. Our team has decided to compete in the
> regional competitions as well but has come across some delays. Because
> of them we will not be able to properly paint our canoe before the
> regional competition. Is it okay if we repaint the canoe (probably a
> different color) for nationals as long as we do not change anything
> else?
>
> Thank you for your time,
>
> Gil Ramirez
> Florida Institute of Technology
> Concrete Canoe Co-Chair
>
> --
Subject: 99Q&A#47
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 14:49:25 -0600
From: Lindner <lindnerj@advicom.net>
Subject: 99Q&A#47
Sender: owner-canoe@ftl.com
To: Brad Putman <BPUTMAN@CLEMSON.EDU>
Cc: ccc@ftl.com, cnccc@ftl.com, canoe@ftl.com
Reply-to: lindnerj@iquest.com
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Brad,
You may use the 11"X17" paper as long as each resulting page is 8.5"X11".
-Christelle Lindner
Co-Chair, Committee on National Concrete Canoe Competitions (CNCCC)
ccc@ftl.com
----------
> From: Brad Putman <BPUTMAN@CLEMSON.EDU>
> To: cnccc@ftl.com
> Subject: Concrete Canoe Question
> Date: Monday, February 15, 1999 6:10 PM
>
> Dear Committee,
>
> I have a question regarding the desing paper. We are planning on
printing
> our paper using sheets of 11x17 inch paper which will be stapled or bound
> to form two 8.5x11 inch pages each. Is this in compliance with the rules
> or can we only use 8.5x11 inch paper? The paper will not exceed the
8.5x11
> inch page limits.
>
> Thank you,
> Brad Putman
>
> --
Subject: 99Q&A#48
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 14:56:54 -0600
From: Lindner <lindnerj@advicom.net>
Subject: 99Q&A#48
Sender: owner-canoe@ftl.com
To: Gandolf20@aol.com
Cc: canoe@ftl.com, ccc@ftl.com, cnccc@ftl.com
Reply-to: lindnerj@iquest.com
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Chris,
Section III.E.1.a says "A multiplier of 1.3 shall be used to calculate the
Direct Employee Costs."
Section III.E.1.c says "A profit multiplier (P) of fifteen percent (15%)
shall be applied to labor."
The equation you are referring to includes those multipliers for DEC and
Profit, thus profit is calculated in the formula for direct labor.
The question at hand seems to be, do you include the paddlers time and oral
presenters as part
of the direct labor calculation? Typically, labor calculations focus on
labor spent in design,
construction, preparation of the report, display, etc. You need not
include time spent practicing paddling and practicing the oral
presentation.
-Christelle Lindner
Co-Chair, Committee on National Concrete Canoe Competitions (CNCCC)
ccc@ftl.com
----------
> From: Gandolf20@aol.com
> To: lindnerj@advicom.net
> Subject: Design Paper
> Date: Monday, February 15, 1999 12:23 PM
>
> Hello,
>
> In reference to Section III E.
>
> In the rules for the design paper, it specifies an economic equation to
be
> used to calculate Direct Labor Costs (DL). One of the parameters of this
> equation is DEC, which is described as taxes, benefits, insurance, etc.
What
> values of DEC are we to apply to team members and how do we do this?
>
> Also, how are we supposed to calculate profit on this project?
>
> Thank you,
>
> Chris Thompson
> UCF
--
Subject: 99Q&A#49
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 17:56:49 -0600
From: Lindner <lindnerj@advicom.net>
Subject: 99Q&A#49
Sender: owner-canoe@ftl.com
To: mfhaynes@ucdavis.edu
Cc: nxc14@po.cwru.edu, canoe@ftl.com, ccc@ftl.com, cnccc@ftl.com
Reply-to: lindnerj@iquest.com
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----------
> From: Lindner <lindnerj@advicom.net>
Matthew,
Thank you for bringing this to my attention. Technically, ribs can be
included as transverse structural elements, after all, they are structural
elements that extend laterally across the canoe. However, there has been
confusion in the past on this particular issue (ribs as transverse
elements) and we failed to define transverse structural elements in the
rules. Because of this uncertainty associated with ribs, we will exclude
ribs as transverse elements and will include them as part of the hull.
Next year, we will be sure to clarify this issue so no one misinterprets
this particular rule.
Therefore, the official ruling of the CNCCC is that ribs are considered
part of the hull and NOT as a transverse structural element. As such,
materials used in the ribs may be used in the thwarts.
-Christelle Lindner
Co-Chair, Committee on National Concrete Canoe Competitions (CNCCC)
ccc@ftl.com
> ----------
> > From: Matthew Haynes <mfhaynes@ucdavis.edu>
> > To: ccc@ftl.com
> > Subject: Rules Clarification
> > Date: Tuesday, February 16, 1999 6:58 PM
> >
> >
> > To whom it may concern,
> >
> > The previous email (Q&A #43) regarding reinforcing material in the ribs
> > and hull somewhat confused me. However, let me see if I have this
> > straight...
> >
> > I am aware that if a material is used in the hull, it is then legal to
> use
> > it in a thwart or other transverse structural element. I am also aware
> > that material used in the gunwale is legal as a thwart. I was
> > however, under the impression that a rib, since it conforms to the
shape
> > of the hull, would be classified as part of the hull. Thus, if a
> material
> > is used as a rib, it could also be used as a thwart.
> >
> > Upon reading the previous email, it instead appears as though a rib
would
> > also be deemed a transverse structural element and NOT part of the
hull.
> > Is this correct? Also, if a rib is not part of the hull, would a
> > longitudinal element conforming to the shape of the hull be considered
> > part of the hull?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Matt Haynes
> > University of California, Davis
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
Subject: 99Q&A#50
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 18:11:33 -0600
From: Lindner <lindnerj@advicom.net>
Subject: 99Q&A#50
Sender: owner-canoe@ftl.com
To: "Blundon, Andrew" <andrew.blundon@hibernia.ca>
Cc: canoe@ftl.com, ccc@ftl.com, cnccc@ftl.com
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Andrew,
I spoke to our materials representative and he states that Ottawa sand is
more correctly known as "standard graded sand." It is
described in detail in ASTM C778.
-Christelle Lindner
Co-Chair, Committee on National Concrete Canoe Competitions (CNCCC)
ccc@ftl.com
----------
> From: Blundon, Andrew <andrew.blundon@hibernia.ca>
> To: 'Lindner, Chris' <lindnerj@advicom.net>
> Subject: Ottawa Sand
> Date: Thursday, February 18, 1999 5:53 AM
>
> In the FAQ it states that one cup of Ottawa sand must pass through a 4"
> diameter area of reinforcing mesh in 10 sec. for the mesh to be
acceptable.
> Could we please have the properties of Ottawa sand as we want to make
sure
> we are in compliance of this rule (max grain size, grain size dist. etc)
>
> Thanks
> Andrew
>
> _____________________
> Andrew J. Blundon
> Civil Engineering Class of 2000
> Memorial University of Newfoundland
> Work Term V - AOC Brown and Root
> Buis. Tel: (709) 778-7734
> Alternate E-Mail: blundon@engr.mun.ca
> Web Page: www.engr.mun.ca/~blundon
>
> Visit the 1999 Newfoundland Concrete Canoe Team
> Web Page: www.engr.mun.ca/~canoe
>
--
Subject: 99Q&A#51
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 18:17:28 -0600
From: Lindner <lindnerj@advicom.net>
Subject: 99Q&A#51
Sender: owner-canoe@ftl.com
To: brian price <price1006@hotmail.com>
Cc: canoe@ftl.com, cnccc@ftl.com, ccc@ftl.com
Reply-to: lindnerj@iquest.com
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Brian,
Your presenters are not required to paddle. You can register up to 5
female and 5 male participants. Any of these 10 can be presenters and any
of these 10 can be paddlers. They do not have to overlap roles, i.e., 2
presenters, 8 paddlers, etc.
The equipment that you own does not have to be listed. If you choose to
list these items, do not assign a dollar amount since it was
previously purchased, or include a footnote that these items were omitted
and state the reason. The schools that have previously invested in
equipment (paddles, life jackets, a curing tent, a trailer, etc.) which
have shown up on previous years cost assessments should be able to exclude
those "costs" from their current assessment but need to state as much.
Donated materials should be treated as actual costs to the school however.
If you use, say kevlar, for the current year's canoe, you should include an
estimate for the real cost of the material because it's considered a new
item and a real cost for the current project.
-Christelle Lindner
Co-Chair, Committee on National Concrete Canoe Competitions (CNCCC)
ccc@ftl.com
----------
> From: brian price <price1006@hotmail.com>
> To: student@asce.org; ccc@ftl.com
> Subject: concrete canoe
> Date: Monday, February 22, 1999 10:39 AM
>
> These are questions that the ASCE members at McNeese State University
> have.
>
> 1. Are all of the presenters required to paddle the canoe during the
> races.
> 2. Do we list equipment that we own as part of the expenses portion of
> the cost assessment.
>
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
> --
Subject: 99Q&A#52
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 18:22:03 -0600
From: Lindner <lindnerj@advicom.net>
Subject: 99Q&A#52
Sender: owner-canoe@ftl.com
To: Robertson Belarmino <Robertson_Belarmino@student.uml.edu>
Cc: canoe@ftl.com, cnccc@ftl.com, ccc@ftl.com
Reply-to: lindnerj@iquest.com
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Rob,
According to Rule 1.G,
"G. Registered participants shall be engineering students during the
1998/99
academic year in which the canoe was constructed, shall be members of an
ASCE Student Chapter or Club in good standing, and shall have contributed
to
the design and construction of the canoe."
Provided he is an engineering student, a member of an ASCE Student Chapter,
and that he worked on the canoe, he is eligible because he was a student
during the 98/99 Academic year. At this time, the rule does not
differentiate between part time and full time students.
-Christelle Lindner
Co-Chair, Committee on National Concrete Canoe Competitions (CNCCC)
ccc@ftl.com
----------
> From: Robertson Belarmino <Robertson_Belarmino@student.uml.edu>
> To: ccc@ftl.com
> Subject: paddlers
> Date: Tuesday, February 23, 1999 3:13 AM
>
>
> hi
> One of our paddlers is a part time student for the spring semester,
> though
> he was a full time student in the fall term. The question is --- Is he
> elligible to paddle for the new england region compettition ?
>
>
> thanks
>
> rob - uml
>
>
> --
Subject: Re: private
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 18:37:39 -0600
From: Lindner <lindnerj@advicom.net>
Subject: Re: private
Sender: owner-canoe@ftl.com
To: Michael.S.Carnivale@nap02.usace.army.mil
Cc: canoe@ftl.com, cnccc@ftl.com
Reply-to: lindnerj@iquest.com
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Michael,
We are going to stick with our earlier ruling that pictures may not be
included on the TOC. Your particular application sounds reasonable, but we
do not want to confuse any judge by adding too many caveats to the rule.
The committee was concerned that a judge may deduct points without your
knowledge. Therefore, it is our judgement that you can use the picture as
a watermark on the main body of the report, but may not do so on the TOC to
avoid potential confusion and point deductions.
-Christelle Lindner
Co-Chair, Committee on National Concrete Canoe Competitions (CNCCC)
ccc@ftl.com
> > From: Carnivale, Michael S NAP02
> > Sent: Friday, February 26, 1999 10:05 AM
> > To: 'lindnerj@iquest.com'; 'lindner@advicom.net'
> > Subject: RE: private
> >
> > Hi Christelle,
> >
> > I have a question from Drexel. Might be "bending" the rule to the
extreme
> > here, but say a picture was scanned in and is used as a watermark, does
it
> > technically count as a picture? The watermarks will mostly be used on
the
> > main body of the report, which we know is legal; the problem arises if
the
> > watermark is use on the table of contents. The question is being asked
> > because the students were able to get the publications department at
> > Drexel to do the layout and they are going all out on this.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > ==========================================
> > Michael Carnivale, III
> > U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, Philadelphia District
> > Geotechnical Section, CENAP-EN-DG
> > Wanamaker Building
> > 100 Penn Square East
> > Philadelphia, Pa 19107
> >
> > Phone (215) 656-6667
> > Fax (215) 656-6797
> > E-Mail Michael.S.Carnivale@usace.army.mil
> >
> > http://www.nap.usace.army.mil/geotech
> > ==========================================
> >
--
Subject: 99Q&A#53
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 18:42:31 -0600
From: Lindner <lindnerj@advicom.net>
Subject: 99Q&A#53
Sender: owner-canoe@ftl.com
To: "Blundon, Andrew" <andrew.blundon@hibernia.ca>
Cc: ccc@ftl.com, canoe@ftl.com, cnccc@ftl.com
Reply-to: lindnerj@iquest.com
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Andrew,
This question was previously asked, so I will repeat it here:
> Is there anything in the rules that prohibits the use of finsihing
> materials on the canoe.
We have not specified any limitations on sealers/paints. However, it would
be in violation of the spirit of the competition if a canoe contained a
significant amount of sealer/paint. Therefore, use these in moderation.
Judges have been known to scrape the canoe to determine the thickness of
the paint. We want to avoid situations in which the finishing coats exceed
the thickness of the concrete. I would estimate that one layer of
sealer and maybe 1-3 layers of paint is acceptable. This also depends upon
the amount of sanding done on each layer. For instance, if you sand most
of the first layer off, you would be able to apply more sealer/paint.
-Christelle Lindner
Co-Chair, Committee on National Concrete Canoe Competitions (CNCCC)
ccc@ftl.com
----------
> From: Blundon, Andrew <andrew.blundon@hibernia.ca>
> To: American Concrete Canoe Committee (E-mail) <ccc@ftl.com>
> Cc: Dutton, Taryn <dutton@engr.mun.ca>; Georghiou, Andreas @ IMD
<ageorghiou@minnie.imd.nrc.ca>; Gleason, Roxanne <gleason@engr.mun.ca>;
Horwood, Karen <khorwood@minnie.imd.nrc.ca>; Phillips, Jason
<Jason_Philips/NLHydro@nlh.nf.ca>; Stuckless, Mark <mark@engr.mun.ca>;
Trevor Bolt <trevor.bolt@hibernia.ca>
> Subject: Painting and Finishing
> Date: Monday, March 01, 1999 12:43 PM
>
> Are there any restrictions on the painting or finishing of the exterior
of
> the hull. I cant find any in the rules. I assume that as long as the
> paint/coating does not significantly contribute to the structural
integrity
> of the canoe it will be OK.
>
> Thanks,
> Andrew
>
> _____________________
> Andrew J. Blundon
> Civil Engineering Class of 2000
> Memorial University of Newfoundland
> Work Term V - AOC Brown and Root
> Buis. Tel: (709) 778-7734
> Alternate E-Mail: blundon@engr.mun.ca
> Web Page: www.engr.mun.ca/~blundon
>
> Visit the 1999 Newfoundland Concrete Canoe Team
> Web Page: www.engr.mun.ca/~canoe
>
>
--
Subject: 99Q&A#54
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 18:30:27 -0600
From: Lindner <lindnerj@advicom.net>
Subject: 99Q&A#54
Sender: owner-canoe@ftl.com
To: hem2@cornell.edu
Cc: ccc@ftl.com, cnccc@ftl.com, canoe@ftl.com
Reply-to: lindnerj@iquest.com
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Status: RO
A couple of years ago, we changed the way the scores for the technical
portion of the competition are awarded. Without going into detail on how
the technical portion was previously determined, I can summarize by saying
that the result of our former scoring system allowed for fractions of
points differences between each placement in each category. Now, for
example, the difference between 1st and 2nd in the design paper is 5
points. Previously, it could have been 0.01 or smaller, depending on the
actual score the paper received. This modification to the scoring seems to
have changed the outcome of the competition. Previously, the winner of the
races tended to take first overall in the competition. Many people
complained about this phenomenon. Now, that does not necessarily apply.
For instance, last year at Nationals, Clemson placed first in every canoe
race. However, they placed third overall in the competition. The team
that scored the highest overall in the technical categories took first
overall. So, while the races appear to be worth a significant portion of
the competition, they no longer have the same impact on the overall
standings. After all, each race is only worth 8%.
I also must mention that the races are very important to the competition in
proving the effectiveness of a particular design. A canoe may look really
good on paper, but may not be effective as a canoe in water.
-Christelle Lindner
Co-Chair, Committee on National Concrete Canoe Competitions (CNCCC)
ccc@ftl.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: hem2@cornell.edu [mailto:hem2@cornell.edu]
> Sent: Monday, March 01, 1999 10:09 AM
> To: canoe@ftl.com
> Subject: Canoe Races
>
>
> Hello,
> Just out of curiosity, why do the concrete canoe races count for such a
> high percentage of the score?
> Thanks,
> Cornell University
--
Subject: 99Q&A#55
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 19:22:38 -0600
From: Lindner <lindnerj@advicom.net>
Subject: 99Q&A#55
Sender: owner-canoe@ftl.com
To: Sven Hombach <s_hombach@hotmail.com>
Cc: canoe@ftl.com, ccc@ftl.com, cnccc@ftl.com
Reply-to: lindnerj@iquest.com
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Status: RO
Sven
You may use an estimate of the concrete, and if there is a significant
deviation from that reported in the design report, you may explain the
deviation during the oral presentation.
-Christelle Lindner
Co-Chair, Committee on National Concrete Canoe Competitions (CNCCC)
ccc@ftl.com
----------
> From: Sven Hombach <s_hombach@hotmail.com>
> To: ccc@ftl.com
> Subject: Canoe paper
> Date: Monday, March 08, 1999 4:13 PM
>
> We are currently doing the cost assessment for the canoe paper, and have
> the problem that we hit the materials section. Our canoe won't be cast
> until next weekend, so we don't knwo exactly how much concrete we need
> to use. Can we simply use a conservatively high estimate for the amount
> of concrete used?
>
> Sven Hombach
> canoe chair
> University of North Dakota
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
> --
Subject: 99Q&A#56
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 19:10:54 -0600
From: Lindner <lindnerj@advicom.net>
Subject: 99Q&A#56
Sender: owner-canoe@ftl.com
To: Gianna Cothren <GCothren@uno.edu>
Cc: ccc@ftl.com, cnccc@ftl.com, canoe@ftl.com
Reply-to: lindnerj@iquest.com
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Gianna,
I will repeat an earlier email (Q&A#22) in which we discussed paints.
******
> Is there anything in the rules that prohibits the use of finsihing
> materials on the canoe.
We have not specified any limitations on sealers/paints. However, it would
be in violation of the spirit of the competition if a canoe contained a
significant amount of sealer/paint. Therefore, use these in moderation.
Judges have been known to scrape the canoe to determine the thickness of
the paint. We want to avoid situations in which the finishing coats exceed
the thickness of the concrete. I would estimate that one layer of
sealer and maybe 1-3 layers of paint is acceptable. This also depends upon
the amount of sanding done on each layer. For instance, if you sand most
of the first layer off, you would be able to apply more sealer/paint.
***********
There is no way to really gage the number of layers students apply.
Basically, the judges will look at the overall thickness of the paint if
the issue comes up. In other words, this is our recommendation, but you
will have to make a judgement call based on the thickness of the paint.
-Christelle Lindner
Co-Chair, Committee on National Concrete Canoe Competitions (CNCCC)
ccc@ftl.com
Subject: Re: private
----------
> From: Gianna Cothren <GCothren@uno.edu>
> To: 'ccc@ftl.com'
> Subject:
> Date: Tuesday, March 09, 1999 10:52 AM
>
> Is gel coating for finishing the canoe legal?
>
> --
X-Organization: The Ohio State University Center for Mapping
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 22:00:08 -0500 (EST)
From: hem2@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: private
Sender: owner-canoe@ftl.com
X-Sender: hem2@travelers.mail.cornell.edu
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In response to this question, I was wondering what exactly a PICTURE is
(photograph?)
Thanks,
Holly
On Mon, 1 Mar 1999, Lindner wrote:
> Michael,
>
> We are going to stick with our earlier ruling that pictures may not be
> included on the TOC. Your particular application sounds reasonable, but we
> do not want to confuse any judge by adding too many caveats to the rule.
> The committee was concerned that a judge may deduct points without your
> knowledge. Therefore, it is our judgement that you can use the picture as
> a watermark on the main body of the report, but may not do so on the TOC to
> avoid potential confusion and point deductions.
>
> -Christelle Lindner
> Co-Chair, Committee on National Concrete Canoe Competitions (CNCCC)
> ccc@ftl.com
>
>
> > > From: Carnivale, Michael S NAP02
> > > Sent: Friday, February 26, 1999 10:05 AM
> > > To: 'lindnerj@iquest.com'; 'lindner@advicom.net'
> > > Subject: RE: private
> > >
> > > Hi Christelle,
> > >
> > > I have a question from Drexel. Might be "bending" the rule to the
> extreme
> > > here, but say a picture was scanned in and is used as a watermark, does
> it
> > > technically count as a picture? The watermarks will mostly be used on
> the
> > > main body of the report, which we know is legal; the problem arises if
> the
> > > watermark is use on the table of contents. The question is being asked
> > > because the students were able to get the publications department at
> > > Drexel to do the layout and they are going all out on this.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > > ==========================================
> > > Michael Carnivale, III
> > > U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, Philadelphia District
> > > Geotechnical Section, CENAP-EN-DG
> > > Wanamaker Building
> > > 100 Penn Square East
> > > Philadelphia, Pa 19107
> > >
> > > Phone (215) 656-6667
> > > Fax (215) 656-6797
> > > E-Mail Michael.S.Carnivale@usace.army.mil
> > >
> > > http://www.nap.usace.army.mil/geotech
> > > ==========================================
> > >
> --
Subject: Fw: 99Q&A#57
X-Organization: The Ohio State University Center for Mapping
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Reply-To: <lindnerj@iquest.com>
From: "Lindner" <lindnerj@advicom.net>
To: <canoe@ftl.com>, <cnccc@ftl.com>
Subject: Fw: 99Q&A#57
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 20:17:48 -0600
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Priority: 3
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----------
> From: Lindner <lindnerj@advicom.net>
> To: DPirate@bigfoot.com
> Cc: cnccc@ft.com; ccc@ftl.com; canoe@ft.com
> Subject: 99Q&A#57
> Date: Thursday, March 18, 1999 7:54 PM
>
> Ben,
>
> Because you changed your technique after submitting the report, you are
at
> the mercy of the judges. I think that if you present this properly to
the
> judges, they will not deduct. For instance, you say that the design
> reports were due so early that you had to make "best guesses" on the
> technique. That is a problem that we have at the Regional level and not
at
> Nationals. Many schools do this on the actual weight of the canoe and
are
> not deducted for doing so. I, personally, would not deduct points, nor
> would I recommend any judge to do so either in your particular case. If
> you are concerned about this, you could possibly present this email to
the
> judges prior to mentioning a discrepancy...
>
> -Christelle Lindner
> Co-Chair, Committee on National Concrete Canoe Competitions (CNCCC)
> ccc@ftl.com
>
> ----------
> > From: Captain Ben <d_pirate@yahoo.com>
> > To: ccc@ftl.com
> > Subject: Technical Paper Discrepancies
> > Date: Monday, March 15, 1999 10:34 AM
> >
> > After pulling our first canoe from the form, several items were
> > modified, such as release agents and method of reinforcment placement.
> > The problem that arised was that our technical paper had already been
> > sent in for judging. As per a previous question, this information
> > should be added into the presentation. It stands to reason that the
> > display should also reflect this change. My question is that since a
> > judging criteria is 'consistency with report', will we be penalized
> > for improving our canoe after the report has been submitted?
> >
> >
> > Benjamin Fernandez
> > LSU Concrete Canoe Chairman
> > DPirate@Bigfoot.com
> > "Arrrrrgh!"
Subject: FW: Scoresheet
X-Organization: The Ohio State University Center for Mapping
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Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 11:13:36 -0800
From: "Sparkman, Elizabeth" <sparkmane@pwa.co.sacramento.ca.us>
Subject: FW: Scoresheet
To: "'ccc@ftl.com'" <ccc@ftl.com>
Cc: "'canoe@ftl.com'" <canoe@ftl.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
Importance: high
X-Priority: 1
Sender: owner-canoe@ftl.com
Precedence: bulk
Oops ... forgot to cc the list. This information may be valuable at other
regional events so CSA should distribute.
-----Original Message-----
From: Sparkman, Elizabeth
Sent: Friday, March 19, 1999 11:11 AM
To: 'uyeno@aludra.usc.edu'
Cc: 'donn_uyeno@yahoo.com'
Subject: RE: Scoresheet
Importance: High
Donn,
Looks like you should have fair weather through the weekend. I took a look
at the race pages of the scoresheet. All race events carry through to the
"Races Summary" worksheet, are summed for Total Race Points, then the total
points carry through to the "Final Summary" worksheet. If you are able to
complete the distance races, the points will carry through the Race Summary
on to the Final Summary just fine. If you only complete the preliminary
sprints, but not the finals, then use the recap on the "Preliminary Sprint"
workseet to determine rank (it just shows petite and grand but that's all
that get points anyway.) The easiest method would be to use this
information and manually enter the allocated points based on rank into the
"Races Summary" worksheet. You will need to unprotect that sheet and the
password is "canoe". Go to TOOLS - PROTECTION - UNPROTECT SHEET - enter
password. The point distribution is on page 22 of the rules. Be sure to give
everybody else zero points, and zero out any other events that were not
completed (say coed race for example.) The brown cells on the "Races
Summary" page will read #N/A and you must either have the points or a zero
there for all cells. After you've done this, there should then be a tally
of All Race Points in the lavendar column. These are the points that carry
over to the "Final Summary" page.
I should be home most of Saturday. Call me either Friday night or early
Saturday morning if it looks like any races will be rained out and we can go
over it again, if need be. (916) 369-2206
-----Original Message-----
From: Sparkman, Elizabeth
Sent: Thursday, March 18, 1999 6:08 PM
To: 'uyeno@aludra.usc.edu'
Cc: 'donn_uyeno@yahoo.com'
Subject: FW: Regional Competition
Importance: High
Donn,
Just wanted to be sure you got this. Call me tonight or tomorrow (916)
369-2206 or (916) 875-6789 ext 347. if you have any questions. I'll look at
the spreadsheet tonight and email you tomorrow with what you need to do to
change formulas if some races are cancelled. The cells are locked so you
would have to "unprotect" them, and the password is: canoe
Maybe it won't rain.
-----Original Message-----
From: Sparkman, Elizabeth [mailto:sparkmane@pwa.co.sacramento.ca.us]
Sent: Thursday, March 18, 1999 3:59 PM
To: 'Donn Uyeno'
Cc: 'ccc@ftl.com'
Subject: RE: Regional Competition
Importance: High
Donn,
As far as canceling races, rain alone should not be a cause for race
cancellation unless all schools agree. However, ligntening and
thunderstorms are a safety hazard. If thunderstorms on
Saturday are imminent, you should consider Friday races instead if the
waterway and presentation logistics permit. You also have the option of
starting early on Saturday, or late, with distance races cut out. Once
again, majority of the schools must decide this.
This happened at Nationals in Washington, D.C. in 1995 where the final
sprints were cancelled due to lightening and thunderstorms. This was done
by a majority vote of team captains (one from each school). However, the
Judges should reserve the right to stop the races if they feel conditions
become unsafe, then only the race events completed thus far would be
counted.
If all the races must be cancelled due to weather conditions, then the
competition will be decided based on the Technical portion (academics) only.
If only part of the races are completed, then you will need to manually set
the points to zero for the cancelled events.
I will take a look at the spreadsheet and reply under a separate email on
what you need to do to manipulate the formulas in case only a portion of the
races are completed.
Elizabeth Sparkman
Co-Chair, CNCCC
****************************************************************************
****************
Elizabeth,
Looks like rain will come during our race day but we are crossing our
fingers that it doesn't. What happens if the races are canceled due to
excessive rain?
Donn
Subject: Fw: Rules Interpretations
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Reply-To: <lindnerj@iquest.com>
From: "Lindner" <lindnerj@advicom.net>
To: <canoe@ftl.com>
Cc: <ccc@ftl.com>, <cnccc@ftl.com>
Subject: Fw: Rules Interpretations
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 18:32:41 -0600
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
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----------
> From: Lindner <lindnerj@advicom.net>
> To: canoe@ftl.com
> Cc: ccc@ftl.com; cnccc@ftl.com
> Subject: Fw: Rules Interpretations
> Date: Monday, March 22, 1999 7:38 PM
>
>
> I'm resending this message because it did not deliver.
>
>
> ----------
> > From: Lindner <lindnerj@advicom.net>
> > To: canoe@ftl.com
> > Cc: ccc@ftl.com; cnccc@ftl.com
> > Subject: Rules Interpretations
> > Date: Sunday, March 21, 1999 5:11 PM
> >
> > Greetings to all schools! Right now, many of you are in the midst of
> > preparing for the big Regional e